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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    • An RFI if it doesnt clear Military trials, may never become Tender.
    • For IAF Chief to lower requirements to accommodate Govt push, may fall same trap as Tyagi post govt change. Hence Military/Govt give/take earlier precedent has been made a definite no go (Rafales for F16).
    • Govt to go alone - be political suicide for sure..
    • With No tech transfer - from USA side, makes it even more unlikely
    • Post Parliament disclosure - even more difficult for Govt to revert, if it cant show drastic need/benefit + trials clearance from IAF in first place.
    • Hence am afraid SE is still born or Gripen E at best.
    Its not about IST at all. IST time will start only post issue of Tender, when there is a genuine reason to pursue a project..
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
  2. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    @Abingdonboy

    This is the news you were anticipating the most.. here goes

    • Back to back evaluation of modified Israeli F16 followed by LCA took place for high altitude and extreme cold zone performance and mission efficiency.
    • Tejas performed better than F16 in our airbase tests. That's confirmed and now on record with IAF again post MMRCA.
    • Also there was a problem with engine sheat fins getting jammed and a special anti freeze had to be used which is again imported.
    • The Tejas engine while lower power was able to work after pre heat and heat up cycles.
    Now the MK2 development story
    • A radical proposition is being evaluated -Mk2-S
    • The Mk2-S is the dual engine variant of Tejas and is said to have a similar wing design as the SE MK2. Essentially it will have more power to boost.
    • There are tests going on for vectoring right now and seeking advisability to remove those huge radar beacons in the back.
    Now new procurements updates
    • Rules for large plane requirements were passed by the government.
    • Finalizing rules and then posting the requirements to all the countries for invites is left.
    • Its now a Grade-A deal which has increased from Grade-C two months ago.
    @vstol jockey @Hellfire can define the grades better..

    @Picdelamirand-oil @halloweene
    Invite for a formal MII will come to your side soon as official are formally moving.. off the shelf numbers will be jacked up as per the indications as well..

    Limited chance left for all foreign OEMs.. whomosver comes will be the one who will design the internal of Mk2-S Tejas variant and will be twin engine powered (targeted Safranised Kaveri)

    If Dassualt grabs it then Mk2-S will be mini Rafale ( @MilSpec).

    The F16 and Gripen chances are reduced a lot with performance of Tejas....only left is when they will get inducted in large numbers..
     
  3. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Are these guys in DRDO reading my posts? The moment I change my design, they too change their design. So much so that even the RFI for AESA radars had some clauses which I had stated here on LSA thread fro developing my own aircraft. Infact even I have in mind a TE solution for MSA with Kaveri engines with the whole aircraft scaled up by 20%.
     
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    That twin engine LCA will end up failing miserably.
     
  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    TE LCA with HTFE-40 will be an outstanding design but making it bigger with Kaveri will be like remaking Mirage-4000.
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The M-4000 class will cost a lot, will not be better than the Rafale and will be very, very, very late. The one with HTFE-40, although a better option, will be late as well. They will take more than a decade to design, build and test either one. I don't know what we will do with these aircraft after 2030.
     
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  7. Angel Eyes

    Angel Eyes 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Thankss for the news sir.....You made my day....
     
  8. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    How about going for something logical and easy for a change?

    • Perfect current Kaveri and develop a slightly uprated variant. (~90Kn)
    • Make Uttam AESA radar and DRDO EW Suite production ready.
    • Now integrate all the above to MK1A and call it MK1B maybe?
    • Order it 8-10 Sqd, production starting 2023-24.
     
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  9. shaktimaan

    shaktimaan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I thought they already freeze the design of mk2, now they are planning twin engine variant...why HAL guys can't focus on one thing, now mk2 and AMCA both are in the same stage of development. If I remember correctly, they already have twin engine design back from 1990's
     
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  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It appears to me that even DRDO has now subscribed to those very comics which are read by IA & IAF. They too are going the USAF way of big is better. Do we have such resources, infrastructure or need for such aircraft? We need Indian solution for Indian problems. Most of airbases are designed for Mig-21s and Jaguars. nearly all of SU-30MKI is parked in the open. When we talk of serviceability, we fail to notice that M2Ks are parked in AC hangars and that is one of the additional reasons for their high availability. Even the 36 Rafale will be parked in such hangars otherwise why do you need 41.8B just to create infra at airbases. You take out these hangars and you will know the reality of these birds. We need aircraft capable of operating from bases which presently exist. We need money to grow our fleet, diverting funds for such Infra at this stage will cripple all our future expansion plans. I am quoting below what I wrote recently to RM,



    "The Indian Navy needs about 57 deck based fighters now and this may go up to 150 aircraft in future. The IN has budgeted an amount of USD 15billion for these 57 aircraft. IAF needs additional 300 aircraft to replace its present inventory and also add to its fleet size. The combined worth of money requirement for these two armed forces itself is about USD 60Billion if an aircraft like Rafale or F-18SH is inducted. If we add the requirement 12 A330 airframes for MRTT & AWAC to it the total grows to nearly USD 65Billion.If I am given the chance to produce just two Technology Demonstrators of my design which will cost us less than INR 350crores and my suggestions about A-330 airframes accepted, we will be able to save over USD 40Billion for these deals and from this saving IN can have its new Submarines, another aircraft carrier, 100 Helicopters for operations from ships while Indian Army will have its new fleet of FICV-Future Infantry Combat Vehicle. Indian Navy is stuck in a very peculiar situation, if they order these jets from abroad, they will be left with no money to buy new submarines and build another aircraft carrier. I can’t understand this logic of buying weapons which rob us of future growth and create a situation which will make us even weaker than what we are today. Same is true for Indian Air Force, they will either be able to replace the existing fleet of Mig-21/27 or add more squadrons. My design offers the most viable solution and will result in savings as explained above."
     
  11. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Excellent news - to go for more Rafale both MII & offself. Plus develop TE Mk2-S variant too.

    Now only thing can we proceed above objectives at Warp Speed - time is money always (hope not moon days cycle 1=28)
     
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  12. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Hopefully RM being FM will understand numbers better & be interested. I doubt he get other part right though
     
  13. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    something which @PARIKRAMA has not told you is that Parrikar had made further orders subject to France first fulfilling the offsets clause and show real progress on them. With his departure from the job, DA-which does not pay bribes as claimed by many, has actually started using those very contacts to ensure follow up orders are given even without they making even one blade for Kaveri. This is the truth. Those who called names to Parrikar must know that he was very clear in what he wanted and how he wanted it.
     
  14. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Bring back Parrikar .....:india::india::india:
     
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  15. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I actually want this stuff to happen from day 1, but it's quite unlikely.
     

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