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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    1) The Israeli F16s has a lower powered engine, than the one we tested during MMRCA.

    2) If at all, the GE404 performed better than the PW229, but not Tejas over F16, because then it would need to be able to carry more weapon / heavier loads, to longer distances than the F16.

    3) Mk2-S :lol: - a fighter with the same wing design, but 2 engines, with the only aim to add more thrust?

    More engines = more weight!
    Same wing design = same problems of load limitations and drag!
    The twin engine fighter development, that GoI has already approved beyond 2025 is AMCA and not another 4th gen fighter!

    So neither is this fantasy solving the problems of Tejas (overweight, limited load, limited internal space, drag), but would not make any sense in terms of time frame.

    4) How does Gripens chances get reduced, when the GE 404 engine apparently is performing well in those areas?
    It uses an upgraded version of the same LCA engine, therefor should perform even better!
    It should be able to carry higher loads in the same area, due to higher trust and load capacity.
    And if it's main competitor, the F16 B70 fails, it even increases it's chances!
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  2. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    When has India ever tolerated a single vendor situation in such big ticket deals? If the F-16 Blk.70 is kicked out, the entire farce collapses.
     
  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    m.aviationweek.com/defense/opinion-how-tech-transfer-helped-saab-win-brazil
     
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  5. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I don't worry for Dassault. Dassault is just a French company which belongs to the Dassault family. This family is so rich that it could buy Airbus or Boeing.
    During the competition between the F-16 and the Mirage F1 (called the contract of the century), Marcel Dassault had bought 20% of the shares of General Dynamics, which allowed him to make a good profit when the F-16 won ...That Dassault earns a little more or a little less money makes me completely indifferent. What I'm interested in is the aircrafts and the Rafale program. And the Rafale program is progressing well, there will be no holes in the production of the plane, because if the production rate is greater than 1 per month, Dassault knows how to adapt to produce in good conditions. The F4 version is already launched and engineers are thinking about the MLU version and even a Rafale NG. For me that's what's important, not to produce any 1000 aircraft.
     
  6. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Dont worry was not trying to sell you either, Rafale/Dassault loss be someone else gain - maybe Saab Gripen E.. Cheers
     
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  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    [​IMG]
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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
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  8. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Light Attack Competition: Air Force, McCain Tout Acquisition Experiment By Colin Clark on August 09, 2017 at 9:26 PM

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    Air Force Chief of Staff David Goldfein at end of his AT-6 flight.

    HOLLOMAN AFB: It may be hard to believe but the future of the Air Force may depend on three turboprop planes and a $20 million spec-built attack jet.

    They are the entries in what the service calls the Light Attack Experiment, a back-to-the-future attempt to rekindle the sort of innovation and fast cycle times that used to mark the development of Air Force fighters and bombers, before the current age when it takes 15 to 20 years to design and buy a new aircraft.

    You know it’s important because Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson gave a speech to about 100 top Air Force officials, foreign air force representatives and the media this morning here. Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein put on a flight suit and personally flew first an AT-6 up in the morning and then an A-29 in the afternoon.

    “This is going to be a great day,” Wilson told the assembly.

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    Gen. David Goldfein and Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson



    Four aircraft are being run through a gamut of six daytime combat runs and two night runs. At least three of them will land on unpaved runways. What are the planes? The A-29 (made by Embraer) and the AT-6 (made by Textron and based on the Beechcraft T-6) are considered the likeliest planes to be picked should the Air Force buy a Light Attack aircraft. The Scorpion aircraft, developed by Textron using company funds, is also competing alongside the Air Tractor (my personal favorite, mostly because it just looks so damned rugged). The Air Tractor, built by the eponymous company and L-3, was a late entry into the competition and arrived after the other aircraft.

    The experiment — or competition or flyoff or whatever you want to call this — has powered ahead since being approved March 8. Using Other Transaction Authority (as Breaking D readers understand) and encouraged to do so by Congress, the service prodded industry to come up with candidates for the Light Attack plane and began testing their capabilities in less than six months. That’s lightning fast by military standards.

    Granted, the airframes are not new, but the sensors, avionics and communications capabilities– the guts of the planes — are new. For example, the A-29 flies with Link-16, enabling it to communicate with most advanced US fighters. Its avionics, according to Embraer’s Taco Gilbert, are comparable to those in the F-15 and other advanced aircraft.

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    Air Tractor

    Sen. John McCain, chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee, has pushed the Air Force to use OTA in pursuit of the Light Attack Aircraft and authorized an impressive $1.2 billion for an estimated 300 aircraft across the five-year defense budget. What makes that especially remarkable is that the Air Force has not committed to buy any aircraft and is, ostensibly, using the competition here to help it decide if it should

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    A-29 being loaded with weapons

    “The light attack experiment at Holloman Air Force Base, New Mexico provides an example for how rapid acquisition and experimentation can help our military procure the needed capabilities more quickly, more efficiently, and more affordably than we have in the past,” McCain said in a statement today. “Our adversaries are modernizing to deploy future capabilities aimed at eroding the U.S. military advantage – and reversing that trend will require a new, innovative approach to acquisition and procurement.”


    In the next step in the light attack competition the Air Force will select the most promising pair of planes and run them through a combat experiment early next year, Wilson told reporters here. Industry will also learn a considerable amount from the Air Force about how “to be faster and more dynamic” than they currently are.

    Stressing the need for “productive failures,” Wilson said she’s put a photo of the famous Corona spy satellite program on her office wall to remind herself and visitors that you’ve got to take risks and accept failure sometimes to press ahead. The Corona program “failed the first 12 times” before it worked, she noted. But on the fourteenth try its photos proved to the US that there was no “bomber gap” with the Soviet Union. Of course, the Corona program was highly classified at the time and few Americans knew of its failures.

    Can Congress, the media and the American public accept failures in weapons systems or will the familiar chorus of the damned ring out each time the services push the envelope in these experiments? Can we afford not to accept failures and continue to be careful and build weapons that take two decades to field?
     
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  9. surya kiran

    surya kiran 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    What this also does is create more aircraft players, thereby forcing the incumbent ones to up their game and delivery timelines.
     
  10. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Lockheed denies report on F-16 tech transfer to India

    A recent report claiming the US denied critical F-16 technology to the government of India is erroneous, the US Air Force and F-16 manufacturer Lockheed Martin say.

    New Delhi is searching for a new single-engine fighter to recapitalise the Indian air force’s aging fighter fleet. The report from Defenseworld.net quoted the Indian Minister of State for Defence saying the US has not agreed to transfer F-16 technology and production to India. But a USAF and Lockheed spokesman confirmed to FlightGlobal that the issue of technology transfer is still being coordinated.

    Although Lockheed announced plans to partner with Tata Advanced Systems at the Paris air show, the company has been careful to characterise this alliance as conditional. Lockheed committed to manufacturing Block 70 Falcons in India only if the company wins the contract.

    “Any media reports claiming the US has denied or approved the transfer of F-16 technology to India are simply not true,” Lockheed says. “The government of India is still determining its single-engine fighter requirements and government-to-government discussions between India and the USs are ongoing. No decisions have been made yet regarding technology transfer.”

    A US State Department spokeswoman referred questions to Lockheed.

    “As a matter of policy, we do not discuss potential or pending arms sales before they are notified to Congress,” the spokeswoman says.

    Rumors that the US might have denied the transfer of F-16 technology to India appeared plausible, given the programme’s record of technology transfers to foreign buyers.

    In 2015, the US denied Korea’s request for AESA radar, infrared search and track, electro-optical target tracking devices, and jammer technology transfers for its future KFX fighter. In the meantime, Korea is pushing for lower technologies for the jet, while continuing to domestic development of AESA.

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-report-on-f-16-tech-transfer-to-indi-440209/

    Sign contract first to confirm or deny. :dude:
     
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  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    One more evidence, that choosing F16 will be a rip off. There is no justification, not to take Gripen E in this tender! Be it capability, tech transfer, commonality to LCA MK1A, customisation with Israeli or Indian stuff, or future benefits for AMCA, we can have it all, we just need to be smart about it and look at the benefits of Brazil now.
     
  12. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Source Based news
    • A signed letter of intent has been submitted today by LM to the MoD for F16.
    • This means Trump have given his blessings for the deal as per Indian side requirements
    • It's submitted today to the DM AJ as a formality being Independence day and a support to India
    • The PR war will just intensify more..
     
  13. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    What tech they agreed to give, other than screwdriver assembly??

    And till IAF dont lower technical requirements, getting F16 in absence of clearing military trials, will get bogged down in corruption charges & have major political consequences, letter of intend don't change anything.

    Ofcource LM had intend when it tied up with Tata earlier or were they pure bluffing earlier.
     
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  14. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Just heard on TV Trump coming hard on China (trade wars), where USA companies to get market access in China, has to share USA Tech with China. Trump saying will put an end to it.
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/orde...the-brink-of-starting-a-trade-war-with-china/

    So with his latest onslaught on Tech transference - how he allow F16 core tech sharing with India. I doubt. Unless Indians accept USA First, India second/Third or inconsequential, just incidental.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
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  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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