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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major REGISTERED

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    With HAL? A lot who shouldn't be doing anything related with fighter jets...
     
  2. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    According to recent updates it will be signed soon. Since both sides reporting this we can take it seriously. 5-6 years of development cycle with 3 prototypes production starting from 2024-5.
     
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  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    It won't be a good aircraft if that happens. Since we need 2 years to produce and deliver the first jet, actual development time will only be 4 years, and most of that time will be for MKIzation. We need 3 years for MKIzation. That gives only 1 or 1.5 years for development, nothing much will happen.

    That's why it was 3+3+2 years minimum for FGFA. And we can easily see delays of 2 more years. So 8-10 years.

    Plus the new engine will be ready only in 2025. That's why I suggested buying the Russian PAK FA in 2025 so we can take care of all the teething problems before the FGFA comes in.

    In fact, if we add 2 more years to the development and make a more improved version, then we can start accepting a more advanced FGFA from 2030 without any loss in capability because we will also have 3 squadrons of PAK FA by then.
     
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  4. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Rafale F4.2 in place of Pak FA?
    http://indiandefence.com/threads/iaf-in-a-crisis.62642/
     
  5. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant IDF NewBie

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    Honestly if Rafale N.V is as good as the PAKFA, that's more of an indictment on the PAKFA than the Rafale being exceptional.
     
  6. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Besides being lot lot cheaper due to rubble dollar exchange rate.
    I would seriously recommend Dassault to unilaterally start Rafale MII, even if they get next tranche order for another 36 -48 planes - this will assure Rafale get even bigger orders in days to come on regular basis.
    @Picdelamirand-oil @BON PLAN food for thought
     
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  7. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I agree with you American subsonic cruise missiles are much light-years faster than Supersonic P-800 Oniks, Bhramos (Mach3) & Zircon(Mach7) Hypersonic cruise missiles etc. They (Russians) can never achieve such achievements before USA on 4%.
    If only world was such simple logic (sarcasm).
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
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  8. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It's the way Dassault is implementing MII. Instead of putting an assembly line and saying MII is done now, they feed the Indian industrial plant thanks to the offsets of the contat for 36 Rafale until reaching 30% of the value, which allows to increase the capacities of Indian high-tech, this percentage should rise to more than 50% with the new tranch of 36 that comes.
    Then India will buy its Rafale directly from DRAL, that's when a production line will be installed because it will be a need at this moment, but it is not what improves the most, India country technology.
     
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  9. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Thats all good & nice. but along with 50% localisation, if even assembly starts here - can claim its Rafale MII with 50% localisation, more to follow with more orders.
    Strategically terminology/marketing sells - By claiming to be part of Make in India initiative - you oblige govt that now, since you made the jump in good faith, prerogative to them to now do more in terms to support Make in India initiative in terms of regular additional order for rafales.

    Comparison same example with
    F16 in terms of localisation it be really lol as their MII will not even cover 30% at best, as only 40% of F16 is USA part, rest Nato countries, restricting core US tech am sure (crown jewels they say), so at best 40% if even core tech shared, still claiming it as MII, so why not Rafales too.

    Rest Dassault decision, I fear by the time they come close to 80% localisation or think of starting MII ...... whole bread gone only small crumps left.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
  10. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    But India government know the approach and agree on it. It was clear when we get the first 36 that MMRCA will be implemented step by step with an increase of local work each time that a new batch is ordered. The only unknow was Indian Time!
     
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  11. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    If you & Dassault happy so be it.
    Personally i believe is coz of lack of announced Rafale MII by Dassult that lot more options be explored by Indian Govt in every turn possible. But then I dont believe french understands how India actually works.
     
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  12. Blackjay

    Blackjay Developers Guild IDF NewBie

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    US is just that incompetent.Being comparable with somone who only spends 4% of your budget.
    :badass:
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    The reference was to the electronics suite of both jets. It's obvious that the PAK FA will have a far superior airframe and engine.
     
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  14. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It's debatable that it is for electonic suite only because in the following line it is said that Pak Fa (not Pak Fa electronic suite) need to be improved to be better than Rafale NV.
     
  15. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    For that we will need to negotiate a new contract beyond the 72 jets the IAF has asked for. The current requirement for 36 more is probably for the 2022-2025 period. So it's not the F4.

    PAK FA is not competitive with the Rafale F3R in the 2022-25 period.

    Rafale's biggest threat is the SE MII, not PAK FA. Even if we buy 200 PAK FA/FGFA, we will still need 200+ Rafale class fighters. Both projects are completely independent.

    Even Vstol says that: But SE will surely cut in to the space of Rafale.
     
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