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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. Grevion

    Grevion Professional Think Troll IDF NewBie

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    SH back in race!:facepalm::mad:
    It's astonishing to see both the MMRCA contestants who were out on technical grounds making its way back in Indian fighter requirements.
    Something so simple is yet again being screwed up by the govt.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  2. surya kiran

    surya kiran 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    IN + IAF = Rafale M + Rafale
    IAF SE = F-16 Block XX
    IAF heavy - FGFA
    UAV - General Atomics + ????

    What happens to Tejas? Do we keep the production line open to accommodate the know how or what?
     
    Angel Eyes and PARIKRAMA like this.
  3. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Only God knows what Modi and Dovall are smoking these days. The way the F-16 deal is being pursued, its a no brainer that India is surrendering its sovereignty and defense at the mercy of the US. Even today without US support, india is capable enough to hold its own with respect to china. There is no way, china can win a war against India. What good will 200 F-16 do for india, when they come with restrictions and with no access to global supplier chain, most of these 3rd gen Jets will only be sitting pretty at various airbases due to lack of spares. The only capability that F-16 is adding to India is unconditional & unprecedented slavery to US interests. At 150 million a pop each. It will all be hunky dory till the time our interests align, but what happens when they dont?

    We would be better off with French, Russian, Israeli & other European nations for our defense needs. We are paying hard cash at the end of the day and deserve the best.

    Its to early to pass a judgement as of now, without looking into the specifics of the contract. But if these concerns are not addressed. you can bet that India in the 21st century will be ruled by US RAAJ.
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    We can only take to account what we know and so far, there are only 4 SPM categories.

    Single Engine fighters
    Naval helicopters
    Submarines
    Armored vehicles

    The naval fighter tender is too small for an SP and Boeing ready to Make in India, doesn't necessarily mean via SPM, but can be via Buy and Make Indian category as well and same could be the case for Rafale.

    If we limit ourselfs to just a few privat companies, MoD makes itself vulnerable for blackmailing, costs increases..., the same issues that we see with foreign privat players, that take advantage of their positions.
    Elta knew about their unique position to supply AWACS and increased the costs for the follow order. Russian companies are known to keep increasing costs, see the mess Dassault created after we selected them...and Indian privat players that are as profit driven won't make a difference. So competition needs to remain to have priority, to get good deal.

    The SPM itself is aimed, to get privat Indian players to finally invest and commit to the Indian defence market, so that part is good, but the government must remain to have proper control, otherwise we make ourself dependent on the SPs.

    HALs role will be interesting now, since the government is clearly preferring privat players. The naval helicopter SPM basically puts an end to naval Dhruvs, or naval IMRHs. If at all some LUH for basic land based utility roles might be interesting.
    Other than that only trainers, FGFA and AMCA are on their card for the future (let's consider LCA as developed more or less) and the latter 2 really not even their projects, which means they don't even have a say.
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    SE and TE aircraft can have two different SPs.
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Are you sure someone said that? I find it highly unlikely.

    TATA would be the only reason if someone wants to support the F-16 for India.
     
  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    ADE/HAL. :D

    Foreign company: There's IAI.

    We are obviously building a whole lot of Mk1As.
     
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  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Based on what? The only relation between the naval tender and IAF is, Rafale!
    Only IF IN orders them, the IAF has a chance to add orders to them, which then could be enough for an Indian production line, but that's it.

    Where is IAF considering F18SH, or new Mig 29K/Mig 35s? What about the F35, is IAF considering it as well, just because IN sent an RFI to LM? They don't, because IAF is covering the medium class requirement with the SE tender and if at all, "some" additional Rafales.

    So there is no TE MII tender, since the naval tender is separate from IAF and includes interest into SE fighters as well, although the chances for them are lower.
    While Rafale MII is totally dependent on the IN navy decision, otherwise the option clause is the only chance for IAF for more.
     
  9. Ved Mishra

    Ved Mishra Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Bonhomie with US is a necessary evil for India at this stage not for going to war with Pakistan or China but to prevent it. The bonhomie comes with a price attached which need to be paid. It doesn't make India the puppet of US.
    The trick is to play it right. Further I believe for airforce it will be just more Rafales and LCAMK2. We didn't came this far with Tejas for just 83 pieces.

    For Navy though I think F18s will be coming.

    SE tender will be eventually cancelled in favour of LCA MK2 IMO.
     
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  10. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    More here:
    https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/09/tata-vs-adani-is-india-incs-big-new-jet-dogfight.html
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    More here:
    http://saabgroup.com/Media/news-pre...tion-plan-for-aerospace-and-defence-in-india/
     
  12. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    This 1 PSU??? would this be talking abt??? ... HAL?
     
  13. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    Check the document it says 'Fighter Aircraft'. It will be stupidity have two SPs for same job.

    You are picturing here some dreamy/optimal scenario which SP is not. This idea of SP is not to have multiple private players but to make a single company to concentrate on one area. There is no question about competition after SP selection. Selected OEM will partner with SP to offer lowest bid. If another fighter tender is available, it has to go through already selected SP. Or else it defeats the whole purpose of SP model.


    Because HAL is enough future potential for their current and under development programs. And they have nothing to offer for IN for what they are asking.
     
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  14. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    For now. The 'Fighter Aircraft' refers to Gripen or F-16.

    TE MII will be a different aircraft and will require a different SP. In case Rafale is chosen, why will the govt give the project to the same company that makes Gripen/F-16?

    Btw, although the document definitely refers to one aircraft, the word 'aircraft' is both singular and plural.
     
  15. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    What's up with the conflicting reports?

    Now I hear the SE will be chosen next year itself.

    @vstol jockey @PARIKRAMA
     

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