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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I did not mention specifically 1m2 fighter

    As such information is classified and not available

    However the 290km range for older APG-68 is true perhaps at high altitude in ideal conditions

    And its double for APG-80

    And proposed APG-83 which takes in features of F-22's APG77 has more range than APG-80 which is already doubling a long range.

    All OEM articles stressing on "longer range"

    And even media reports in India 2 best selling points of F-16 are the better radar and with it better missiles
     
  2. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    That's a bad idea; you don't fly a Mirage like you fly an F-16. The characteristics of the delta wing requires a very different dogfight strategy. See this.

    If you want to fly against pretend-F-16, you should have bought the Mirage F1 instead. There was an old proposal of updated Mirage F1 with most of the Mirage 2000's improvements (digital fly-by-wire, M53 engine, etc.) that would have been perfect for that.
     
  3. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    You are funny

    Please back your double range with actual data not words!
     
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  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Translated

    http://www.defesanet.com.br/gripenb...apresenta-painel-WAD--Modelo-B--do-Gripen-NG/

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Been busy couple of days & come back to Comedy Circus!!!

    F16 Block70 detection range - 600km
    Apg-68 detection range - 290km

    Same logic - I can see easily Stars 100 Light years away in night, so my eyes detection range be 946073077711900 km, does it mean practically anything when i cant see satellites orbiting over me, even if they were about to fall on my head.

    Atleast am glad - no one taking american literature "when pigs fly" or Uk idiom "US pigs can fly" seriously.
    I would hate to see someone fall for the literature at face value & start importing American pigs to do flying sorties, with a 2 inch radar fitted on its snout.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    APG-68 is 150Km for fighter sized targets. 290Km is for very large aircraft.

    The APG-83, even if it is based on F-22's or F-35's radar, will not be good for a post 2025 environment. In other words, this will be the least capable radar offered to India by anybody.

    Even by American standards, the APG-83 is the lowest performing AESA radar, just a notch above older radars of this class.

    I don't see the sense in purchasing this radar for aircraft that will be available only after 2025, it's the dumbest thing you could do. The USAF is upgrading their F-16s with this radar now, which means it will be very old technology in 2025.

    Otoh, Sweden will be offering next gen radars. Most likely similar to the stuff that will go into the F-22 in 2025. Even LCA's radar will be more capable than the APG-83.
     
  7. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Even

    Even JF-17 Block 3 with either KLJ-10 or Selex Vixen 1000E will have better detection ranges. With detection range of around 160 km for 1m2 targets. The APG-80 on Block 60 detection range for 1m2 140-160 km. Which brings the detection range of APG-83 to 120km for 1m2. Our home made uttam will have same detection range for 1m2 targets considering its 150 km for 2m2 targets. Essentially what we will be getting is an outdated bird with an even more outdated Radar. IAF simply needs to Reject this radar. Incase we go in for the F-16 then US needs to provide a much more capable radar, or India needs to ARM the F-16 with a capable radar such as Selex Vixen 1000E or others.
     
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  8. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    I have the feeling the F-16 won't even get through the first stage, the paper evaluation. With the initial MMRCA RFP, it might have, but with a new RFP it's chances of ever seeing field trials is practically zero. They will basically have to develop better electronics than what's on the F-35 if they want to even compete.

    The current version of the advanced F-16 is no different from a Mig-29UPG with an AESA radar.
     
  9. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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    Source Based News
    • As said earlier 30th September is crucial and whole MOD is geared up towards this day.
    • First 10 days of October is expected to be action filled with multiple decisions getting cleared for final approval
    • There are two offers coming from USA formally
    • Offer 1 -
      • An upgraded F-18 further customized as per Indian needs (learning from IN offer)
    • Offer 2:
      • F16 offer with F35 sub system integration
      • These sub systems are unavailable for F18 integration.
      • F35 priority accessibility is an integral part of F16 offer

    Some issues with PAKFA/FGFA

    • PAKFA program is getting brutally hit with various interpretations as per LM and Boeing ppl.
    • American information shows PAKFA with severe deficiencies and many of these points were also there in IAF report on the project which MOD chose to ignore earlier.
    • The corrections within FGFA program recently rose to almost 70 and now is closing to almost 150+ for Indian needs and the making up of the deficiencies.
    • The challenge is such a massive change will mean an all together new aircraft from ground up.
    • Thus there are potential high level of conflicts within MOD on this as they know Russia wont agree for such changes.
    • Also a view is taken to see amalgamation of US based systems to FGFA further to French and Israeli
    • This will lead to potential new problems and a pandora box may get opened soon.
    On CISMOA and BECA
    • Indian Specific version is coming out soon
    • It will address certain relaxations as India wanted and will get a quicker Senate approval for the same
    • It will also enable the US systems to have further upgrades like P8I, Apaches, C17, C130s etc
    • There is a scope of quick approval for the same from both sides ad a window is getting decided for the same to be taken forward.

    @Abingdonboy @Ankit Kumar 001 @nair @Agent_47 @Picard @Picdelamirand-oil @vstol jockey @Gessler @randomradio @MilSpec @BON PLAN @CNL-PN-AA @Robinhood Pandey @Levina @Hellfire @GuardianRED @halloweene @IAF Fan @kaku @ashkum2278 @Nilgiri @Sancho @X_Killer @Angel Eyes @lca-fan @all others
     
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  10. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    Any clarification regarding the sharing of 'critical technologies' if either F-16 or F/A-18 is selected?

    - Partial source codes
    - Engine tech (I guess they might agree to transfer complete manufacture of the F414 but not the F110 engine)
    - Integration of Indian Weaponry
    - percentage (by number or cost) of subsystems that'll be source from Indian vendors
     
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  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    There are many problems with F-18SH. These are very early days for any decision on either F-16 or F-18. Even the Rafale follow on orders will take time due to sudden greed of French. I will explain the meaning of it later.
     
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  12. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant IDF NewBie

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    No surprise about the PAKFA.

    Russia doesn't have the resources to match their military ambition. Economy the size of Italy.

    Pretty much the only military program that hasn't suffered numbers and quality wise is the SAM, S-series. Even then they're having trouble with the S-500.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
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  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Engine tech might be the best we can hope for, but even there, it depends on which parts. We know that we have approval to licence produce the GE414 in India (LCA MK2 engine tender), but it was estimated that the critical transfer might be limited.
    For the F110, I would assume the same, but it might depend on F15 orders and if they want to retain all F110 export productions in the US.

    We really must get over this Indian weapons idea, if we had Indian weapons, we would integrate them to LCA or our Russian IAF fighters first, where they have operational and export priority. If we have such weapons developed someday, we can talk to whatever vendor about it, but till then, it's more important to get the optimal weapon pack for the operational needs. Getting SLAM-ER, or a US/western long range air to surface attack missile, would be far more important, than adding Astra next to AIM 120.
     
  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Take those Infos with caution and try to put them in the right context!
    Between LCA MK1 and 1A, there will be 40 to 50 modifications, none of them require external changes and that is a fighter developed and designed for the use in Indian forces. When you compare that, with Su57 and FGFA, 70 or even an estimated 150 modifications, doesn't actually sound that much. Also those sources make statements based on "interpretations as per LM and Boeing ppl". Why would we listen to outsiders without any real infos on the project? Not to mention that they have their own interests of course.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  15. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Maybe you should show that to ppl who are listening US whispers...

    Briton Says U.S. Tried Hard to Halt Concorde Project in 1964

    http://www.nytimes.com/1976/05/07/a...to-halt-concorde-project-in-1964.html?mcubz=1
     
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