Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

Tags:
  1. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    611
    Likes Received:
    352
    Country Flag:
    Canada
    C-Series jet sold at 19 million when production cost is 45million.

    hehehehehhe
     
  2. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,434
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    Country Flag:
    Afghanistan
    Is it? Production cost for a new aircraft is hard to predict accurately. The company makes a prediction for what the average production cost will be if they sell as many as they expect to be. Of course the first models will be more expensive to produce than that; but if they were sold at cost nobody would ever buy them, and it would therefore be impossible to develop new aircraft models, so the airliners of today would still be four-engined prop floatplanes.

    As for unfair government subsidies, Boeing is the pot calling the kettle black. The fact that they're attacking Bombardier for a niche they aren't covering, claiming to have lost money on a tender where they didn't enter, shows how this isn't about the C-series in itself, but truly about Bombardier as a company branching out of its bizjet and water bomber niche and thus becoming a potential future competitor, one they can nip in the bud.

    Embraer's complaint is more receivable IMO.
     
  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,174
    Likes Received:
    3,163
    Sure, because he didn't brought in private industry, oh wait he did (Avro replacement /FICV/P75B). He even was the first that claimed things about making India an industrial hub for defence manufacturing, before a US marketing company invented the Make in India slogan.
    And he even failed to seal the Rafale deal, for the same reasons Parrikar had to cancel it. But yes, everything he did was bad. :disagree:
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,174
    Likes Received:
    3,163
    http://m.hindustantimes.com/india-n...-this-month/story-PkWYQpJGVCnA4iksDmcQAP.html
     
  5. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,122
    Likes Received:
    5,928
    Country Flag:
    France
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  6. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,588
    Likes Received:
    9,145
    Country Flag:
    India
    From today's Times of India -

    [​IMG]

    Check the section labelled Future Plans.

    @Abingdonboy @randomradio @PARIKRAMA @BON PLAN @Sancho @Picdelamirand-oil @Agent_47 @Hellfire

    Prelimenary tender to be floated in about a month, import off the shelf first batch by 2020 and begin MII production by 2022. :hula

    It seems they want to have SE MII before Tejas Mk-1A is inducted. Timeline is way too optimistic IMO. I understand GoI wants to show some MII materializing in time for next elections but our processes are :slowride:
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
    randomradio, Sancho, Sathya and 4 others like this.
  7. Metrology

    Metrology IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    24
    Country Flag:
    Sweden
    Possible of course.

    Found a prognosis that there will be price parity in common components in 2020. With higher die yields it sounds like it will actually end up cheaper. There may be few applications that need it, but with higher energy efficiency and resilience it does sound preferable in pretty much every application as soon as prices come down a little. We'll see. :)

    http://www.eedesignnewseurope.com/b...-drive-innovation-passive-components/page/0/1
     
  8. surya kiran

    surya kiran 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    463
    Country Flag:
    India
    It is utterly ridiculous that this government is more interested in wanting to tom tom about Make in India, than taking long term strategic goal based decisions. This was the same group of people who were blaming Antony for going slow on the MMRCA. At-least he did not sell out to the Americans, nor have rosy dreams of partnering with them.
     
    Bloom 17, BON PLAN, Sancho and 2 others like this.
  9. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    7,483
    Country Flag:
    India
    Does it sound new to all of you?
    See how AMCA is now conveniently 2035+ when day 1 i said that and ppl felt it be available soon and even in 2022+ when nothing has happened on the ground.

    Look how LCA MK2 is omitted and now there in planned deal.

    See how a squadron from abroad is there and yet another 9X for a planned 6 squadrons (18+1 Reserve)

    Look at FGFA - thats the sad reality.. its not cutting ice with internal reports

    and the worst part Jags going by 2027 as Darin 3 is limited in scope and F125 engine deal not done at all.. so a need of almost 130+ DPSA - Thats where Rafale Comes in numbers and thats why IAF chief said ydy TE is needed and will be separated..

    36 Rafale deal is done already and next is the lot needed for the critical DPSA replacement of these Jags.

    Connect the dots and see whats happening all around... I have told you what i heard and its not that rosy...

    The RFI will be stalled till the Rafale agrement is cleared internally between IAF and MOD and then SE process will become more G2G then anything else.. All will be seen..

    @Picdelamirand-oil @halloweene
    Remember the talk about the Exocets and Scalps weapons for Rafale for 500 Km range without fuel tank sortie.... Jags M wont last long even if we cannibalize parts from frames of France....

    We need a squadron there on priority and thats one of our proposed Rafale Base. It should happen soon and Karachi will be devastated with the fire power of a Heavily armed Rafale. With No fuel tanks and doing the work of covering almost double that combat range distance between the base and Karachi.. Its reach is far more strategic..............
     
  10. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2016
    Messages:
    749
    Likes Received:
    741
    Country Flag:
    India
    Sukhoi 30 was inducted in last 2 decades

    So Rafale and F16 in next 2 decades ?
     
    Angel Eyes likes this.
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,174
    Likes Received:
    3,163
    =>

    They mentioned 3 and 5 years, which not necessarily means 2020, but 3 years after the contract was signed. That's the same time frame we saw in MMRCA, or the Rafale deal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,174
    Likes Received:
    3,163

    Actually it doesn't. Every licence production deal include off the shelf procurements, be it MMRCA, or Ka226, or C295W. Just as AMCA is planned only for 2030+ is nothing new, because FGFA was to come from 2022 onwards. The next fighter replacement that then would make AMCA needed, are MKIs. So except for ADA or DRDO, nobody realistically expected AMCA earlier.

    No it doesn't, because no new engines only limits the performance of the Jags, not the lifespan. So they won't be replaced earlier than planned, which means he was talking about the additional 36 x Rafale, to fill the 2 bases with the planned number of squads (2 per base). But that's IAF wishlist, while MoD/PMO will decide and they will compare it to what cost, industrial or technical advantages they get, if they add the 36 to the SE order instead.

    114 + 36 x SE can mean...

    Lower unit cost
    More production / jobs in India
    More ToT
    More political benefits

    While IAF is right to point out the need of 2 more Rafale squads, just to make the PMs PR deal worth it in operational terms, the MoD/PMO have other criterias to decide what fighters will be bought. And buying 36 x Rafales build in France doesn't make the deal really worth it. The biggest hope for Rafale in India remains the naval tender, but with MoD forcing them to cut down their plans, a lower cost and more suitable choice is more likely.

    Worst case scenario now is, F16s for IAF and Mig 29Ks for IN.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
    Sathya and surya kiran like this.
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,174
    Likes Received:
    3,163
    http://www.indiastrategic.in/2017/1...e-engine-combat-aircraft-within-october-2017/
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  14. mirage

    mirage 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    102
    Country Flag:
    India
    the way adani enterprises share price moved after australian fake news , i guess gripen will be shortlisted . very very bleak chance for f- 16 now
     
    Angel Eyes likes this.
  15. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2016
    Messages:
    749
    Likes Received:
    741
    Country Flag:
    India

    Can you share that Australian news ?
     

Share This Page