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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The legality of the subsides matters, not just money.

    WTO ruled recently one of the 3 ongoing cases between airbus/boeing is legal for boeing subsides.
     
  2. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    And just before it was the contrary.
    Boeing use money from US governement weapons sales to finance airliners.
     
  3. Locke

    Locke FULL MEMBER

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    I never made a claim otherwise. And the argument "they did it too!" isn't a very powerful one.

    Airbus's major counter claim was that Boeing was subsidized via military and NASA contracts. (Note: Airbus (EADS at the time) also was a military contractor and received the same kind of work.) Also that there was some state and local subsidies of various natures.

    The main Boeing complaint was below market rate loans (government rates +0.25%) for up to 33% of the program cost, but only if the product was commercially successful. That were substantially better terms than what Airbus could have received in the private market.

    The WTO ruled against both companies and there have been appeals and more appeals so it's hard to keep track of the most recent figures. As of 2012 it was about $5 billion against Boeing and around $18 billion against Airbus.
     
  4. Locke

    Locke FULL MEMBER

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    If you're saying Boeing used profits from military sales to finance the commercial side of the business, there's nothing wrong with that. Dassault does the same.
     
  5. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    No. I say Boeing is receiving fresh funds through black programs and over priced contracts with US govt (as Space X for exemple...)

    Boeing military sales are far more than EADS ones.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    [​IMG]
    http://www.wionews.com/india-news/i...s-the-gripen-formation-on-air-force-day-21131
     
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  7. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    They just called it Gripen. It means nothing. Nothing to do with Gripen."...
     
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  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Of course it doesn't mean anything for the tender, but it is interesting since they changed the names of their formations to names of fighters they have in the fleet as it seems, Su 30, Rafale, Tejas...Gripen (earlier called Viggen formation). Hopefully the PMO gets the hint.
     
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  9. Locke

    Locke FULL MEMBER

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    You'll have to provide some proof that is happening. If it were so I'm certain Airbus would be making very loud protestations. This is a very poor smear job. I'm sure you can do better.
     
  10. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Lovers will beat the shit out of the rocks to give the boast to their dreams, be it a Name.
     
  11. Metrology

    Metrology IDF NewBie

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    Hard to be less subtle if that's the case. :) They must have known how it would look, and if they didn't want it to be interpreted that way they would have avoided it.
     
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  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Desperate times, requires desperate measures as it seems. I doubt there will be a lot of F16 supporters in IAF, but the PMO choosing it, is sadly a possibility.
     
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    https://twitter.com/CMOMaharashtra/status/918161985065250816
     
  14. Zer0reZ

    Zer0reZ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Government of Greece – Upgrade of F-16 Aircraft to F-16 Block V Configuration

    WASHINGTON, Oct 17, 2017 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Greece for an upgrade of F-16 aircraft to an F-16 Block V configuration. The estimated cost is $2.404 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on October 16, 2017.

    The Government of Greece has requested a possible purchase of an upgrade of its existing F-16 fleet to an F-16 Block V configuration which includes up to one hundred twenty-five (125) APG-83 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radars (includes two (2) spares); one hundred twenty-three (123) Modular Mission Computers (MMCs); one hundred twenty-three (123) LINK-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System Joint Tactical Radio Systems (MIDS-JTRS) with TACAN and EHSI; one hundred twenty-three (123) LN260 Embedded Global Navigation Systems (EGI)/Inertial Navigation Systems (INS); and one hundred twenty-three (123) Improved Programmable Display Generators (iPDGs). Also included in the proposed sale are up to one hundred twenty-three (123) APX-126 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe (AIFF) Combined Interrogator Transponders (CIT); one (1) Joint Mission Planning System (JMPS); one (1) F-16V Simulator; upgrade to two (2) existing simulators; one (1) Avionics Level Test Station; Secure Communications, cryptographic equipment and navigation equipment; upgrade and integration of the Advanced Self-Protection Integrated Suite (ASPIS) I to ASPIS II on twenty-six (26) F-16s; Ground Support System, systems integration and test; spares and repair parts, support and test equipment; personnel training and training equipment; publications and technical documentation; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, logistical, and technical support services; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The total estimated program cost is $2.404 billion.

    This proposed sale will contribute to U.S. foreign policy and national security objectives by helping to improve the security of a NATO ally which is an important partner for political stability and economic progress in Europe. The upgrade of F-16 aircraft to an F-16 Block V configuration will bolster the Hellenic Air Force’s ability to support NATO and remain interoperable with the U.S. and the NATO alliance. It will also help Greece sustain operations in the future, thereby reducing the threat the alliance’s enemies pose to the U.S. and the alliance.

    The proposed sale will improve Greece’s capability to meet current and future security threats. Greece will use this capability as a deterrent to regional threats, strengthen its homeland defense, and execute counter-terrorism operations.

    Greece currently employs a mix of F-16s in Block 30, Block 50, Block 52+, and Block 52+ Advanced configurations. Therefore, Greece will have no difficulty absorbing the upgrade of these aircraft from an operation and support standpoint.

    The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

    The principal contractor will be Lockheed Martin of Fort Worth, TX. There are currently no known offsets. However, Greece typically requests offsets. Any offset agreement will be defined in negotiations between Greece and the contractor.

    The proposed sale will require the assignment of approximately 3-5 additional U.S. Government or contractor representatives to Greece.

    There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.
     
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  15. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    The Rafale costly?

    16 x F16V for 3.8 billion = 237 $million each !
     
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