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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    It's not paper capabilities only, both the radar and IRST have been tested during MMRCA evaluations.

    http://saab.com/region/india/about-.../gripen-es-electronic-wizardry-is-the-future/
    While the Selex AESA uses proven gallium arsenide (GaAs) technology for its transmit/receive modules, the Gripen E/F will feature a GaN-based EW suite that provides tremendous situational awareness.

    @vstol jockey has also pointed out that India is testing Italian GaN modules for an Indian EW suite. So there is real information.

    So both the radar and IRST are superior to what's been offered on Rafale F3R.
     
  2. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    So F 16s are Ruled Out ?

    Why Would US allow Re sale of GE 414 ; If F 16s are Rejected

    Gripen also Has Many Other US components
     
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    I made that post with the assumption that Gripen has already won. It's because the discussion is between Gripen and Rafale.

    But honestly, I don't see the F-16 as having any chance of winning. It will neither get T-1 nor will it get L-1. The Gripen is both superior as well as cheaper. Read the link in the previous post.

    F414 sale doesn't make a difference to the F-16. And Gripen's US components are fine, we can survive.
     
  4. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    @PARIKRAMA

    Wrong ; US will match Gripen offer in every way

    It is a Prestige issue for them ; The stakes are very high for them

    Secondly US Congress is Notorious for Killing any thing ;any Deal
    that is seen as an affront to US interests or Prestige

    Look how US is Behaving in case of Iran Nuclear Deal

    The Future US administration can Go Back on any previous comittments

    They will make Both India and Sweden suffer if we choose Gripen

    Either we choose F 16 or Reject BOTH
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
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  5. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Because they are liar
     
  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Every US sale is tailor made, by the fact that they limit or add capabilities for certain customers on their choosing. Pakistan doesn't latest US A2A missiles, Egypt didn't got BVR missiles, India so far didn't got long range A2G missiles.

    But that has nothing to do costs comparison anyway and the fact remains, that only the flyaway cost gives you a real comparable figure.

    :lol: Says the one that brought the whole issue here and related it to Rafale.
     
  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    They can try how much ever they want and they will still fail.
     
  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Well =>

    That's a lie too, since not a single Rafale in operational service today has Meteor yet. That will be available only when the first F3R will be delivered next year.

    Not to mention that you don't need AESA to support it for the full range, since even Captor M offers longer radar range today and can deal with the info's send from Meteor as well.

    But the topic was how Gripen E's AESA might fare against RBE 2 and then you have to distinguish bias from known facts:

    - we know that RBE 2 has a smaller field of view, therefor can scan less area
    - we know that the F3R upgrade will add A2G modes to RBE 2, while Raven will come with A2A modes only in 2019
    - we know that both radars use GaAs modules, but Saab has GaN ready and is offering it to India as an option

    Both are estimated with a TR module count of around 1000.

    So RBE 2 will offer more A2G performance, while the Raven (in the Gripen E at least), will offer more in A2A.
     
  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It seems that someone from DA is reading our forum. What ever we discuss here, comes true after sometime. If you guys might recall, when this whole issue of F-16 came up,I had written that DA must help us stabilise Lca MK1A as any SE MMRCA will eat in to the orders of rafale and directly threaten Rafale MII. seems French have learnt it and did exactly what I had suggested. If they are able to fit FSO and AESA radar and also integrate the M2K EW suite of LCA, we may not need F-16 or Gripen at all. I will be least surprised if French suddenly come with even CFTs for LCA MK1A.
     
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  10. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    The best exemple of paper capability is F35 !

    supercruise, agility, affordability = on paper only. :azn:
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
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  11. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    They are not lying, they are being very specific.

    Radar
    Gripen: GaN. 240+ deg FoV.
    Rafale: GaAs. 130-140 deg FoV.

    IRST
    Gripen: QWIP
    Rafale: MCT

    EW
    Gripen: GaN
    Rafale: GaAs

    Missiles
    Gripen: Meteor/ASRAAM
    Rafale: Meteor/MICA

    Saab also has a dedicated directional datalink that Rafale lacks. That's a pretty big plus.

    The basic avionics specs are all superior compared to the Rafale F3R. Now what if all the stuff Saab is offering is digital, that's a massive upgrade. It is also possible that we will opt for the Japanese AESA seeker for the Meteor for Gripen by the time we place orders, that will make Gripen Meteors also much more capable than the ones attached to Rafale.

    In 2025, I'm pretty sure the Rafale F4 will be superior to the Gripen E, but India won't have F4 at the time. We can only consider what we have, not what France will have. If we go for 36 more Rafales, it will be F3R.

    Gripen has a temporary development timeframe advantage over Dassault. And it looks like the IAF wants to utilize this advantage.

    I've in fact moved my TE MII forecast to post 2027. So that's when Rafale MII may begin, with deliveries after 120+ Gripens are delivered. Perhaps Rafale NG.
     
  12. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    ASRAAM use the same seeker than AIM9X. AIM9X that failed miserably against a old syrian Su....
    For the rest.... MICA has thrust vectored engine that give it a 50G+ agility. Not need more.
     
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    An LCA with an AESA will still remain an LCA and not an MMRCA.
    So no matter what techs it gets, it remains less capable, the only relation to the MMRCAs would be, possible commonality in the IAF fleet to Rafale or Gripen E.
     
  14. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    AESA is not only interesting in term of range, but also in scanning quite everywhere simultaneously. A classical radar can't.
    AESA is far far superior to mecanical antenna to keep a good situation awareness.
    AESA is superior in term of counter counter measures also.
     
  15. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    on paper......

    will see the REAL result in some monthS
     

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