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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Untrue (physics) when oriented westwards, radar do not see eastwards.

    GaN : untrue. radar is Ga As

    MCT is much more versatile than QWIP (but more expensive). And how do you know IRST tech of future IRST??? unknown quantity

    True, but was smaller module architecture allowing more space for extra electronics (and therefor faster treatment of information)

    It is still aproject only thingy. a memorandum of understanding. Btw, mica NG will have "rupture technology seekers" (citing announcement for head of program on linkedin)

    By the time you order, deliveries will be in 2021 earliest. You can asked for prewired F4.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2017
  2. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    That will be a sight to behold.

    But I'll tell ya what can really put a stop to SE MII. The only way SE MII won't happen is if both jets fail evaluations.
     
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Rafale is still better than Gripen in every other field, so that's not such a big issue. It's only a temporary advantage for Gripen.
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    True that's why AESA technology is better than pulse doppler technology, but the claim was that only RBE 2 could support Meteor at full range and that's wrong, because older radars in larger size, still offer very long detection ranges.
     
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  5. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Oh i've seen omewhere tht considering its huge tanks, Su30 did not need external tanks to get the same range as rafale for penetration mission. so there was no real advantage in RCS.
    Lets start again. SU 30 RCS is know to be in 15m realms. Rafale way under 1 sqm . Much more difrence then 2 taks. Anw, lets have a rule of thymb calculation.
    rafale span : 10.86m Sukhoi 14.7
    10.86 exp 2 = 117. 14.7 exp2 = 216
    ratio 0.54 here is the rule of thumb : Rafale drag should be around 0.54 the one of SU30.
    fuel amount in a sukhoi : 9.4T*.054 (ratio) = 5.13T ... Not that different from the inner 4.7T in a Rafale is it? (less than half a tank)
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    That's okay. The movement will be extremely fast.


    The point of this is the aircraft does not have to change heading.

    The production model will be GaN.

    Gripen's IRST is based on PIRATE. Rafale's IRST is the same old IRST that ADLA decided to cut.

    We will get Gripen only after 2024. An AESA Meteor will become available by then.

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/details-of-joint-missile-project-with-japan-emerge/

    No, we can't "ask" for future stuff now. Everything has to be done based on specs that we have negotiated for right now. So that's only F3R with some India specific customization. The second tranche of 36 will also be only for F3R.

    The point of going for aircraft like Rafale or Gripen is the aircraft will be fully operational when it enters service. Our objective is not to participate in a future version like Brazil.
     
  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Wrong context, since the older Flankers were not designed or treated for RCS reductions, unlike Su 35, or the upcoming MKI upgrade. The Russians claim 4 times lower RCS by adding RAM and composites. So let's take your figures 15 / 4 = 3,75 for a Flanker sized fighter, while the low RCS of a Rafale will be increased well above 1 with external fuel tanks.

    That's why the most important factor of the MKI upgrade is not Brahmos or an AESA, but RCS reductions and EW.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    No it won't, since neither Swedish Air Force nor Brazilian Air Force have ordered it with GaN, that's why Saab is specifically saying GaN for the EW (RWR and jammers)!
     
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    You should consider lift to drag ratio and fuel fraction. I don't know about LD ratio but the fuel fraction of the Flanker is higher than Rafale's.

    Flankers were made for supersonic speed. For example, a Flanker can take off with full tank, climb to 35000 feet, touch mach 1.4 and keep going for 30 minutes and still have more fuel than what's Rafale carrying internally.
     
  10. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    What makes you say that? What they have ordered is the Raven. We are only assuming it is GaAs because that's what was present on the early prototypes. But making the switch from GaAs to GaN is extremely easy.
     
  11. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    They already had failed.
     
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  12. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    NO!!! The Radar of Gripen E/F will be contractually selex and GaAs.

    Skyward is not a replica of PIRATE. And do not have SWIR, an essential component for ID.

    WOW !
    So in 2017 they decide to follow on for a second round of talks and you expect the missile to be operational in 2021??? Gripen E will NOT be orperational in 2021!

    No. Gripen will not be operational before Rafale F4 . Just dreams (and i you doubt, i spoke about that with swedish flygpavnet boss in june...)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2017
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    At best I'm hoping both will fail and we will negotiate for F4 MII.

    At worst I'm hoping at least F-16 will fail so we can at least get Gripen.
     
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  14. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    How so? Brazil is expecting IOC in 2021 and FOC in 2023. And I have seen Saab stick to their deadlines.

    You can't consider Sweden's FOC of 2026 because they are going much more slowly with their induction plans. It's kinda like Australia announcing F-35's IOC in 2020, it's an Australia specific IOC. The 2026 date is Sweden specific, not Gripen specific. Only Brazil's FOC matters.

    https://thaimilitaryandasianregion....tial-operational-capability-ioc-from-day-one/
    Speaking during a set of briefings on Gripen export activities at Saab’s aeronautics division in Linkoping on 9 May, Brig Gen Bonotto said “the first Gripen aircraft that we will receive in 2021 will be IOC from Day One”, adding that the FAB’s Gripen fleet will comprise “operational aircraft and there will not be any ‘Independence Day’ aeroplanes that are just for parades”.

    For India, if the process starts this year, then we can expect contract to be signed in 5 years and delivery from the 8th year.
     
  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    I prefer to stick to official statements and not just assume things and your own source said clearly:

     

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