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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Well we keep saying that for years, but still they keep adding capabilities and surpassed our forces on several levels. AWACS, cruise missile strike, AIP and I wouldn't be surprised to see J31 at some point, maybe even ahead of FGFA.

    We need to get faster and smarter about our procurements, in fact we have to learn from PAK, how to counter a superior enemy with a low budget.
     
    sunny6611 and proud_indian like this.
  2. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Uncle Donald will not accept to give india all the clearance for that.
    He wants jobs in America, not in Sweden or India.
     
  3. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    ??? :disagree:
     
  4. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Exactly, we were poor. There was nothing much US could do.

    Now Indian companies trade outside of India alot in USD and government forex is a lot parked in US as well.

    All the FDI coming in from west will stop if India steps out of line.

    The more India climbs the ladder, the more vulnerable it gets. During 07 India was largely unaffected. Next market correction will be fatal. Hard to believe? Take some Indian financial analysts word then.

    I understand the need for chest thumping. But one should know their place and their value.
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    That doesn't matter to us.

    How is it that we survived decades without the US, and now suddenly we need the US?
     
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  6. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant IDF NewBie

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    Not saying it's a perfect analogy, but the French and British probably thought the same before dealing with the Germans.
     
  7. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    But we have been dealing with the 'Germans' for quite a while already. Even back when the US was firmly on the 'Germans' side as they wanted to prop them up against the Soviets.
     
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  8. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    FDI, forex, all of that will come to India regardless of how bad the relation with US is. None of that is relevant.

    US has free market capitalism. US companies are investing in India because the Indian govt allows it, nothing else.

    Also, no. If there is another financial crisis again, India will be even more insulated from the impact.
    https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...financial-crisis-imf/articleshow/16546237.cms

    If you have actually followed what's been happening, India is not dependent on the US for literally anything. If you have any examples contrary to that, then please provide them.

    Take the example of joint patrols. The US proposed it. They even advertised it to the point where they said India and US are already allies. And their desperation to get India mixed in with China by calling India a Pacific power.

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...Indian-Ocean-primacy/articleshow/53052956.cms

    But...
    https://www.voanews.com/a/india-rejects-joint-naval-patrols-with-us-in-south-china-sea/3231567.html
    But within days, Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar said, "As of now, India has never taken part in any joint patrol; we only do joint exercises. The question of joint patrol does not arise.”

    https://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2014/02/18/why-the-u-s-and-india-arent-allies/
    India has learned that it can say ‘no’ to the US, for example, by not breaking relations with Iran or with Myanmar (before both regimes softened their stance in 2013 and 2012), and by voting against the US (and Israel) on Palestine’s status in the UN.

    The US has learned – maybe with some surprise – that India is not prepared to become an obedient ally, and that it will not dutifully follow American wishes on foreign policy or on quickly opening up foreign investment regulations to hungry US companies.

    This is nothing special. Even during MMRCA, analysts had wrongly predicted that India will choose American planes. But look what happened. IAF will do what the IAF does, its job. Even now many people keep saying there will be a political deal, I will say no to that. The F-16 and F/A-18 are both shit aircraft. You can't use these jets against China. The IAF or IN will not buy either. If American jets are to win, they need to actually demonstrate some levels of superiority. American jets are not even fit to clear basic MMRCA requirements, forget actually winning something. The IN RFP will be even harder for the SH to meet.

    There is one more thing that nobody seems to have followed. And this is the most important part. American diplomats have said that even if India makes policies against US interests, the US will continue to focus on making India strong enough to balance out China.

    The fact is we don't have to do anything, the Americans will do everything possible to get India on their side. We simply don't have to play the game at their pace, we only need to do whatever we have been doing for decades, stay non-aligned. Until we get strong ourselves, just giving lip service is plenty enough.

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...r-china-us-thinktank/articleshow/59285759.cms
    "Given the advancements that China has made both economically and militarily, the US will need to channel considerable resources to assert its global and regional primacy," Atlantic Council, a top American think-tank said in a policy paper 'Transforming India from a Balancing to Leading Power' released ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit here.

    "To accomplish this, India remains a key piece in the jigsaw for the US. President (Donald) Trump will need to assure India that it is not merely a regional prop to balance Beijing's power in the region, but a top priority for US foreign policy under the Trump administration," said the policy paper authored jointly by the former Union Minister Manish Tewari and Bharat Gopalaswamy, director of the South AsiaCenter of the Atlantic Council.


    The fact is China has already surpassed the US economically, regardless of what the GDP numbers say. And the PLAN is going to be a whole lot bigger than the USN in just a decade. In about a decade from now, the CCP is going to have more than twice as much money as the USG.

    It's not good for us to pick sides either. China wants an economic alliance with India through BRI. US wants a military alliance with India. We don't need either.

    That's why--
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-and-road-initiative/articleshow/58673067.cms

    China terrifies them. And only India can stand up to China, not Japan, not Europe, not America, only India. So don't sell your country short. What's most important for us is to stay the course and not be influenced by either side. We will do things on our own terms. Let them wait.
     
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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  10. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Historically false after WW1.
     
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    India will play the part of the US while Japan and the US will play the part of France and Britain.
     
  12. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I don’t do disrespecting others on online forums. Atleast I try not to. It serves no purpose. So don’t take this as one.

    Your entire premise is wrong. Indian domestic/shadow economy is peanuts compared to what the global economy gives.

    And also, your financial opinion is ridiculous. Stop comparing India with China. China is a beast India will never conquer. Period. China needs to implode for that,

    Indian government allows them to invest?The governemnt is begging. They are doing it in national tv and in news papers. What are you talking about?

    Your reasoning of India can do whatever it wants is the problem here. India is not a reliable ally. That’s why we are not getting anywhere. India is piss poor. We have people going into sewers filled with shit to maintain them. With no PPE. In 2017. And you talk like India is some glory land.

    Yes, you are correct that India is insulated. From Reality.

    It’s not about the requirements or what it needs. It’s about what is in its best interest.

    Being a US lackey is the one we have now.
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Great, sell the country to the US then.

    India is a piss poor country where people work in sewers and daydream all day. So why does the US need India at all?

    Dude, you have no clue what you are talking about. China is a powerhouse? Then why were they so helpless against India in Doklam while they are challenging the USN in the SCS?
     
  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    That's certainly not the best for India, because we get closer to an unreliable country, while we drive one if our closest allies in the hands of our enemies.

    We buy old gen fighters and helicopters, while scrapping MTA. At the same time China teams up with Russia for a helicopter joint development and Pakistan starts military exercises with them too, while the prospect is to get clearance for techs and weapons, Russia denied them before.

    What the US is offering us, is faaaar too low for what we trading and even more importantly, for the risk we are taking!!!
    Make no mistake about it, if we join Team USA and there will be a conflict, India is the first to be hit, simply because of our close proximity and the geographical importance!

    All that for transport aircrafts, unarmed drones and outdated F16s?

    It is in our interest to keep improving the relations to the US, but not to align ourselves for no real benefits and at the cost of loosing Russia in the process.

    That's why we need to buy the Gripen E, to get the more capable fighter and the better industrial deal. While we still can get closer to the US with the naval deal, where we hardly have any choice to move around US aircrafts anyway (S70, F18SH, ideally some CMV22s and in future possibly E-2SDs or F35Cs, combined with EMALS).
    In fact I expect the S70 deal to be the main deal for Lockheed Martin and possibly the first licence production deal with the US.
     
  15. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Clearly I have no clue.
     

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