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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Full tech transfer means 100% tech transfer.
    How is it possible for saab to transfer 3rd party tech like General Electric's turbofan engine tech.?
     
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  2. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It will be 100% of the 30% that SAAB control.
     
  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Sounds similar to the Brazilian approach and that turned out to be pretty good for them. The question is, now that the Gripen E and F are already in development, what is left that they can offer for India to participate in design for example, or in which areas will they focus ToT on?

    That's marketing, nobody will or even can offer 100%, because ToT is mainly limited by governments.
     
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  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Neither will give us engine ToT.

    But what Saab can offer us is ToT for radar and EW suite, which the Americans won't provide. Saab will be offering their own radar, not the Italian one.
     
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  5. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Indirectly linked to F16

    A few days back, became aware of a possible secret US-Pak handshake, where US will look away from cross-border terrorism by Pak inflicted onto India, especially in J&K region. In response, US hopes Pak will provide better assist to tackle Haqqani Network which operates out of PAK soil. (another pak fake surface only promise)

    At first I dismissed such report as another one of propaganda & refused to believe it. But then these sequence of events happened.


    • 25/10/2017 Mumbai attack mastermind and banned Jamaat-ud-Dawah (JuD) chief Hafiz Saeed’s name was not on a list of 75 militants the US had handed over to Pakistan, Foreign Minister Khawaja Asif said on Wednesday. Saeed, who carries a USD 10 million bounty on his head (Hafiz Saeed is directly responsible for the hundreds of Indian/American/Isreali deaths in Mumbai 26/11 attack)
    http://indianexpress.com/article/pa...-over-by-united-states-says-pakistan-4906454/
    • 17/11/2017 US Congress to Drop Linkage of Pakistan Aid To LeT
    The DoD prevailed upon key Democratic and Republican aides in the House Armed Services to remove the conditionality introduced by the Senate. The provision was part of the bill meant to finance the US armed forces for 2018 known as the National Defence Authorisation Act (NDAA).

    The provision was dropped last week when the Senate and the House versions of the NDAA were being reconciled before being voted into law. Congressional aides said that the DoD strongly insisted that curbing the Haqqani network must remain the top priority and adding LeT was like “shifting the goal post for Pakistan.”

    https://thewire.in/197999/pentagon-forces-us-congress-drop-linkage-pakistan-aid-let/


    • Now Pak was unsure that even if Hafiz Saeed was free to operate with inpunity, as long as its directed against India. what if USA at one side say we look the other way, what if USA tries to kill him secretly. Hence Pak played up “foreign intelligence agency” activated plan to kill him. In the letter, the National Counter Terrorism Authority said the foreign spy agency had paid Rs 80 million to two activists of a banned outfit for the assassination of Saeed.
    http://www.thehindu.com/news/intern...-security-for-hafiz-saeed/article20211493.ece
    While the above secret handshake was going on, pak wanted assurance from USA that even though USA has put up a 10 million dollars bounty on Hafiz Saeed, USA will not send in Assassination crew.
    Objective was to get assurance from USA that it has not send in operatives & will not send operatives to kill Saeed. Which I believe USA gave informal assurances.

    • 22/11/2017 Having got the assurance & Congress removing him from list - now Hafiz Saeed is free to walk free & continue his operations (business as usual). Its a open secret that the Pak military controls the Pak Judiciary. Ofcource no evidence was actually presented by Pak Govt to Court (so as soon as pressure is off, he could let go whenever pak desired. All the joint USA/India collected information of phone calls/GPS/Satellite phones evidence/David Headley & Ajmal Kasab confessions etc were conveniently never presented.
    https://www.thequint.com/news/india/hafiz-saeed-release-house-arrest

    • Result the following is expected /already in play (More injected Communual Riots like situation)
    http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/11/jaish-e-mohammed-to-set-up-special.html

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...ana-rss-leader-ravinder-gosain/1/1094696.html

    • 20/11/2017 United States designats North Korea as a state sponsor of terrorism
    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/president-donald-trump-north-korea-terrorism/index.html
    While Pakistan has still not been removed from list of major non NATO ally, state sponsor of terrorism is far far away.

    Long story short - USA has once again proved it is not a reliable Partner & never can be. For all the lip sing on Global Terrorism.... For all those who believe we should buy 50 year old & obsolete & useless F16 & rely on USA, the above should be eye opener. Not to forget in case of war, these birds would most likely sit idle, till USA approves.
    Lets not even talk of LM refusal to share Tech or create an ecosystem of development/industry.

    I be damned if F16 come to India. I dont care be it more Rafales/LCA/MSA/Gripen/SU57 etc, just as long as no F16 etc comes to India.

    Posted this as my Blood is boiling.....


     
  6. FOXBAT ALOK

    FOXBAT ALOK FULL MEMBER

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    Lockheed Martin Confident Of F16 Being India’s Fighter Of Choice
    By Sangeeta Saxena
    New Delhi. 06 November 2017. No prizes for guessing the talk of the town if one hash tags aviation in India, make in India, indigenous aircraft production, final assembly lines, Indian Air Force fighters, joint ventures in Indian aviation and many more of them. The talk is – Who will bell the cat ? Will it be Boeing, Lockheed or Gripen? Will IAF’s next fighter to be made in India under the Make in India be F18A, F16 or JAS 39 Gripen E? Indian Air Force has come a long way since its days of dependency on first the USSR and then Russia for its needs. It is now a level playing field for all the players both national and international. But the strongest rumour today is that a RFI will be issued within this week to either Lockheed Martin or Saab.

    The two top executives of Lockheed Martin Abhay Paranjpe, Executive Director, International Business Development and Randall L Howard, Business Development Head for F 16 on their previous visit to New Delhi in a chat with ADU reiterated that they were waiting for the Indian Ministry of Defence to place the order under its new policy of Make in India and having a Strategic Partner and with 4,600 aircraft in 138 variants manufactured and sold to 27 countries, with sixteen repeat orders, they were confident of being India’s choice.

    With a coproduction agreement with Tata Advanced Systems Ltd (TATA) in place and the US Government is fully supporting the proposal in Government-to-Government (G-2-G) talks with the Indian Government the US aviation major is busy creating an ecosystem for themselves. Though they did not confirm but sources in Nasik have told ADU that the OEM is looking for and should also be very near to finalising a deal for purchase of about 200acres of land in the already existing aerospace hub there. Both Paranjpe and Randy unanimously felt that India should follow the US business model where a runway is shared by the US Air Force (USAF) and industry. It will not only help save costs, production and testing time but will also make supply chain management easier for suppliers will automatically want to have their units in the same area. The Nasik rumour seems logical with this argument as the HAL and IAF airfield already exists there.

    Abhay Paranjpe reiterated that IAF’s need for fighters is evident. “ Indian order should be for a minimum of 100 initially and a follow on order of a good number will not be a surprise. We along with TASL should be able to meet the requirement in the given deadline,” he stated. On being asked about the production rate per month he optimistically said that they should be able to produce 3 to 4 aircraft per month.

    Randall Howard informed that the F 16 Block 70 despite of being a new generation F 16 will also share some components and latest technologies of the F 35 to the extent of 70-75 percent. “The company will shift the entire factory and production line from Fort Worth in Texas to India if and only if we get selected by India. Periodic upgrades should be a part of the proposal. The manpower in India will be trained and skills development of the Indian workers and supervisors will definitely be our aim. The training can be here and if needed can also be given in the US facilities. All this will be decided only on the confirmation of getting the contract,” he said.

    “F16 is the most battle proven fighter and is a safe bet in the skies. We have a single supply chain, which means that the entire aircraft can be manufactured and assembled at one facility. Keeping in mind the huge market, India should be able to sell not just aircraft but also spare parts to other parts of the world, from its soil,” explained Paranjpe.

    Randy stated that F-16 is ready for any challenge, combining innovative structural and capability upgrades, such as the Active Electronically Scanned Array radar with a new avionics architecture. According to him the Block 70 software will further enhance capabilities through an advanced data link, precision GPS
    http://www.aviation-defence-universe.com/lockheed-martin-confident-f16-indias-fighter-choice/
     
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  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    All competitors will be confident of being shortlisted.
     
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  8. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    ‘GRIPEN WILL GIVE INDIA THE FREEDOM AND POWER TO SAFEGUARD ITS INTERESTS’
    THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 2017 BY INDIANDEFENSE NEWS

    [​IMG]
    by Nayanima Basu

    Jan Widerström, Chairman, SAAB India, believes that Gripen is the future for the Indian Air Force (IAF). In an exclusive interview, Widerström said the Swedish defence giant was committed to the government’s ‘Make in India’ plan, including full transfer of technology and transforming their proposed India facility into a regional hub for Gripen warplanes. Excerpts:

    How optimistic are you about winning the single-engine fighter jet order for Gripen E?
    We are confident that Gripen E meets the current and future needs of IAF with the additional advantage of being an aircraft that is at the start of its operational life. Gripen offers its customers a clear roadmap for future, effective and affordable air power. That is what sets it apart from any competitor. Gripen will give IAF the flexibility to tailor its response to the changing levels of threat, across the full range of defensive and offensive scenarios. Gripen will give India the freedom and power to act as required to safeguard its interests. We believe that India is in need for an aircraft like Gripen.

    What is your plan for Gripen E under the ‘Make in India’ program for defence?
    We have a blueprint for a comprehensive ‘Make in India’ program, which will include the setting up of manufacturing and maintenance facilities; transfer of state-of-the-art technology; setting up of an aerospace ecosystem in India; creation of a local supplier base of ancillary systems; and employment of a well-trained Indian workforce. We will build the world’s most-modern aerospace facility and ecosystem in India.

    It seems that the issue of full transfer of technology (ToT) has become a stumbling block for the OEMs under the Strategic Partnership policy of India. What is your stand on this?
    There is no issue on transfer of technology, and we will abide completely by the terms of the Strategic Partnership policy of India. We have always consistently communicated to the government that we will abide by the terms of the Strategic Partnership that would be set for the single-engine fighter aircraft program, and will undertake transfer of technology to the chosen partners.

    Are you willing to go for 100 per cent ToT on Gripen E?
    SAAB is fully committed to technology transfer to India in connection with the Indian procurement of Gripen E in accordance with the Strategic Partnership model.

    With more than 50 per cent of the components in Gripen E having American content, how difficult will it be for you to go for full ToT in terms of approval?
    There is no difficulty. When we talk about full ToT, we are talking about enabling transfer through the value chain, including all our suppliers. In fact, recently, we have started the process of enabling Gripen’s major suppliers, including the American firms, to meet with potential Indian partners. We see the transfer of technology as a seamless process between ourselves and our supplier partners.

    It seems that the Defence Ministry is having a re-think on the single-engine fighter jet deal …
    We are not aware of any such re-think. India has a large requirement of fighter aircraft. There is a significant gap between current numbers of operational aircraft and the objective, plus a large number of fighter aircraft will be retiring from service in the next 10 years.
    The former defence minister, Manohar Parrikar, had said that India would have 120 operational Tejas aircraft in 2025, but this number alone is not enough to satisfy the shortfall. The only way forward is the acquisition of single engine aircraft after accounting for Tejas, Rafale and other fighters already under contract.

    IAF has made it clear that they will need the single-engine fighter jets over and above the Tejas LCA [Light Combat Aircraft]. Does it come as a glimmer of hope to you?
    We see Gripen as a complement to LCA. India has a large requirement for fighter aircraft. The Tejas is on its way to induction, and as we understand the Air Force’s fighter requirements, India requires a mix of fighter aircraft to meet requirements and numbers that cannot be met by Tejas alone. It has built the foundation for India’s aerospace industrial development in the last couple of decades. Gripen will not replace LCA – it will built on that foundation – and take it to somewhere new.
    There will be a wave of future technologies, some of them developed in India, that will be integrated into India’s fighter platforms, led by Made-in-India Gripen aircraft. This will be the next generation of aerospace development in India. There will be shared technologies between Gripen and LCA, with common resources, the same suppliers in many cases. Both LCA and Gripen will gain from this.
    India has a vision to export LCAs to friendly nations. Our view of India’s aerospace industry development will enable Indian suppliers to scale up to meet this vision. And that is the Swedish view of partnership.

    How do you plan to make India into an export hub for Gripen E?
    Our India facility will act as a regional hub for SAAB, and will produce aircraft for export to the world in the coming decades. Our Indian suppliers will also become an integral part of our global supply chain.

    http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/11/gripen-will-give-india-freedom-and.html
     
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  9. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    Points to note from above article:

    http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...to-safeguard-its-interests/article9969960.ece

    1.
    2.
    Some people just don't want to believe this fact!!

    3.
     
  10. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    It's very generous of Saab to be offering technologies that aren't theirs to give. It's even more generous given how the one country that can effectively veto this transfer is also the country that is pushing the Gripen's only competitor in this not-yet-a-tender.
     
  11. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    The best response by an old Indian lady, on the flip flop by US on TOT promised by the Americans / Potus for the single engine F-16. :rofl::rofl::rofl::santa-mooning
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    And that's how they won in Brazil, with the best ToT offer. Because the key is not how much techs you own, but how much you are ready to transfer.

    To take your figures:

    Transfering 100% from the 30% you own, is more than transfering 20% of 100% you own.
     
  13. dadeechi

    dadeechi Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The question is how many non Sweden and Brazil flags do you see here and how many of those non Swedish and Brazilian ones can be replaced with Indian and EU?

    upload_2017-11-23_9-45-26.png
     
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  14. dadeechi

    dadeechi Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    When it comes to ToT, Intent is more important than capability and financials.
     
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  15. dadeechi

    dadeechi Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    [​IMG]
    India Struggles to Solve its Fighter Jet Procurement Puzzle
    © AFP 2017/ DIBYANGSHU SARKAR
    MILITARY & INTELLIGENCE
    17:05 23.11.2017(updated 17:11 23.11.2017)Get short URL
    0 32002
    India, which intends to replace all of its Russian-made MiG-21 and MiG-27 fighter jets by 2024, is stuck in a difficult situation, as Lockheed Martin has denied total transfer of technology, SAAB itself lacks complete technology and local firm HAL is incapable of delivering at the required pace.

    New Delhi (Sputnik) — In a rude shock to India, which has been preparing to issue a global tender for single-engine fighter jets, America's Lockheed Martin, considered a front-runner for the deal, has announced that it will not guarantee total transfer of technology if it is awarded the $10 billion contract. This has added to the woes of India's defense ministry that is already in the eye of a storm for failing to convince Dassault Aviation of France to transfer the technology for the multirole Rafale fighter aircraft.

    "It will never be full transfer of technology. It is not in the national interest or industry's interest. Certain technologies are not transferable to anyone in the world," Keith Webster, senior vice-president of Defense and Aerospace, a US-India Strategic Partnership Forum (USISPF), said in an interview with The Hindu Business Line on Tuesday.



    [​IMG]
    © AP PHOTO/ AIJAZ RAHI
    Indian Air Force’s Jaguar Still Performs Poorly After 20 Years, Says Auditor
    The American F-16 and Swedish Gripen are the main contenders in the prospective deal of 114 fighter aircrafts, in which India intends to purchase 10 in flyaway condition, and the rest will be manufactured in India at a facility set up by the winning firm.


    "Only a handful of aviation players have the main technologies in terms of radar, engines, stealth, EW systems, etc. India is the largest market and it is also an emerging power. No one would want India to become independent on this count," Air Marshal Anil Chopra (retired), a defense analyst told Sputnik.

    Swedish SAAB has promised full technology transfer of its Gripen-E fighter. However, Gripen is not India's first choice as SAAB itself imports most of the components from elsewhere.

    Meanwhile, the fighter jets being locally developed in India still have a lot to be desired in terms of radar, engine and EW system. The Indian Air Force has thus far inducted five Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) on initial operational clearance. The Indian Air Force has ordered 20 additional aircraft after the final operational clearance.

    However, the Indian Air Force is not much satisfied with the progress made in the development of the aircraft by the state-owned manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. This is being viewed as a major reason behind the Indian Air Force's delay in placing the order for 83 of HAL's superior Tejas MK-1 fighter aircraft.

    "India must make all efforts for LCA to succeed. Take help of radar, engine and EW systems," Air Marshal Chopra added.



    [​IMG]
    © AP PHOTO/ TSERING TOPGYAL
    India to Start Production of Its Tejas Mark 1A Fighter Jet by 2021
    Even if everything goes according to the promise made by HAL, it can deliver 16 Tejas Mark-1A per year and the induction of all 83 will be complete by 2028. However, the number and pace of delivery would not be enough, as the Indian Air Force has set a target to replace all 11 squadrons (18-20 fighter jets in a squadron) of its Russian-made MiG-21 and MiG-27 aircraft by 2024.


    "To cater to delays and performance shortfall, India must buy single-engine aircraft and arm-twist at least all of the low-end systems it currently has," Air Marshall Chopra concluded.

    But will this change the dwindling strength of the Indian Air Force? "Seems unlikely, as we [have] already [fallen] behind a decade due to indecision," a senior Indian Air Force official told Sputnik.

    The concern is not illegitimate, as even in the best-case scenario if the government decides on the purchase of single fighter jets by 2020, a maximum of seven squadron single-engine fighters would be available to the Indian Air Force by 2032. Presently, the Indian Air Force has 33 squadrons against the parliamentary panel recommendation of 42 squadrons in order to be able to defend itself from Chinese and Pakistan troops simultaneously


    https://sputniknews.com/military/201711231059366772-india-fighter-jet-shortage/
     
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