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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    The IAF is not going to let go of those Rafales of course.
     
  2. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    @randomradio

    You delve in past :D

    Talk about today. TE=SE for GoI!!!

    They don't have the funds. They can not say that openly, can they? Not with the browbeating of UPA over national security in the run up to the General Elections 2014?

    Why do you think I was deadly against 'Modi this, Modi that ...' praising by the so called fan party?
     
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  3. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    If you cant make the CoAS toe the line, make CoAS TOE the line.
     
  4. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    @randomradio

    The logic is Su-30 = TE = 308 + replacements of attritions. Need be - 02 x Squadrons of Su-30 additionally.
    Rafale TE

    So why so many TE needed? :D

    That is how our MoD works.
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    TE and SE were never the same. Even Parrikar said it long ago, back in 2015. The plan was to have the SE MII follow MMRCA. They don't have money now and that's the only reason why they decided to switch their sights to the SE MII first.

    Anyway, the govt did admit they had no money.
    http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-unvialble-defence-minister-manohar-parrikar/

    As for RaGa's attacks on Rafale, it will fizzle out or backfire.
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    That has already been solved.

    Rafale TE is "medium" weight.
    MKI TE is "heavy" weight.

    https://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/02/rafale-sukhoi-cant-replace-each-other.html
    Amidst swirling speculation that India’s M-MRCA jet deal with Rafale is shuddering through final lap turbulence, and suggestions (including by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar himself) that the India could buy more Su-30 MKI jets if the Rafale deal didn’t work out, Indian Air Force chief Arup Raha today publicly declared that the Rafale and Su-30 were different aircraft and that one couldn’t replace the other.

    “There’s M-MRCA and there’s Sukhoi-30. The requirements are slightly different. And they have their own capabilities. They compliment each other but do not replace each other,” Raha said at his press conference at the Aero India show in Bengaluru.


    Parrikar proposed the same, "Buy more MKIs". However he later publicly admitted that the two aircraft are in different classes after his "education".

    This is the main reason why I believe the FGFA will also come, albeit a bit later than the IAF hopes.
     
  7. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Again.

    Talk of today. Don't delve in past. If I had a buck for every statement made and not kept by the politicians, I would have retired by now, with a corpus greater than Mukesh Ambani's wealth.
     
  8. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    LOL


    Only in forums and media.

    There is no heavy weight or medium weight categorization in MoD. :D Honestly!!!
     
  9. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    When you see all the noise around the GtoG agrement for "just" 36 Rafale.... I don't think Modi will agree that way for a substantially bigger order (because SE is only interesting in high number. Saying nearly 100+)
     
  10. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    The TE/SE debate is not going to make much of a difference even within MoD after IAF formulates a RFI for a "proven jet with only one engine". These are technicalities the IAF can surpass given enough time.

    Yeah, right now, they are questioning the IAF's insistence of not combining the two requirements, but once the differences are laid bare through presentations, it will become a standard.

    But the fact is there are two different requirements.

    There isn't. AM Matheswaran had pointed it out long ago as well. He called weight differences irrelevant and MoD accepted that argument. They removed the weight limitations after that and allowed heavier jets into MMRCA. The differences are mainly in cost of operation.

    This is what I pointed out above.
    M-2000 costs $3000 in CPFH.
    MKI costs $12,000.
    Indianized Rafale should cost somewhere between the M-2000 and MKI, but much closer to the M-2000.

    The idea behind a "medium" TE was to keep the MKI out.

    It's easy to justify the three standards when there is such a big difference in costs. Rafale costs will stabilize once the Indian line starts churning out spares and that will allow the IAF to argue for the Rafale. Combat exercises between the Rafale and MKI will also justify a MII program for Rafale.

    Anyway, MoD is cribbing about it now because of a funding crunch. Once the economy goes back on track, the situation will normalize. Until then I consider these as insignificant hurdles, part and parcel of a weak economy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Modi can't justify a GTG deal for the F-16 without a tender. Anyway, SE MII is a Make in India flagship under the Strategic Partnership Model. Without a tender, it will fail, so no chance of shortcuts happening here.

    All the "urgency" requirements can easily be fulfilled by Rafale. There will be an "urgency" in March 2019 also.

    The first Rafale deal was also because of the same "urgency". :D
     
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  12. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    We did adopt a similar modus operandi for the Su 30 MKI . The nos on order or delivered is close to 280 with a further order of around 40 .Speculations are they will in the final tally number around 350.

    We won't be surprised if the GoI follows the same path with the Rafale for 126 FA .

    W.r.t the F-16 , speculation is the GoI may go in for a single order of 120 FA under MII with a squadron or 2 imported from the US in fly away condition and the rest manufactured / assembled here .
     
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  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Or F18s, with the recent reports about the licence production offer for navy and an extention towards IAF.

    It's just another proof that this government is clueless when it comes to defence and the support of the forces.

    Parrikar negotiates MMRCA
    => PM buys 36 Rafales

    Parrikar and Jaitley implement the DPP 2016 with the SPM
    => Doval and Sitharaman questions the need

    :hitwall:
     
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  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    No it wasn't since there is just 1 MMRCA requirement. If the government had ordered 126 Rafale or EF, there would never had been a SE MMRCA.
    Dhanoa is talking about additional 36 Rafales, to fill the 2 bases, not more twin engine fighter or a 2nd tender.
     
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  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Which is not possible unless there is a production line in India. That's the key for the MKI numbers, since we kept adding them to the HAL line.

    Whatever MMRCA will be ordered with a production line, that will also make the numbers.
     
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