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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. Tejpal

    Tejpal Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    They need 100+ jets for the Vishal? What?!?
     
  2. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Most definitely.

    50 jets on the ship, 50 on land, with at least 25 of those undergoing maintenance. You need a bunch of Rafales as reserves, for training and exercises etc.
     
    ashkum2278 likes this.
  3. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Come on man . The design of the IAC - 2 hasn't been frozen yet . We don't even know the propulsion system . For a good reason. It involves massive capital resources which at present will fetch more bang for buck if deployed to meet other more pressing needs . Its speculated that we won't be moving with the IAC - 2 in its present avatar up until 2025 which in turn throws the date of it's commissioning well into the mid 30's . The best part is none of this is still certain . We may well go in for a sister career to the IAC - 1 with a similar design .And you're speculating on the IN going in for a 100 Rafale M FA 's
     
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    If we are getting the carrier in 2035, we will need all the aircraft in service before then.

    If we go in for a sister carrier of IAC-1, then the Rafale numbers will be lesser. Not a problem.
     
  5. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    The Rafale M will be near obsolete by then , if we are referring to the 2035 timelines given that the French aren't planning on any new AC careers now .
     
  6. Tejpal

    Tejpal Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Desperate that the situation has reached this far. AMCA production starting in 2035 (if optimistic)

    Before 2030, we've got around 80 MiG-27s, 150ish MiG-21s (don't know exact figures on how many left), 50 Mirage-2000Is, 70 MiG-29UPGs and 145 Jaguars that need retiring.

    That's 500+ jets out of service before 2030 and we'd STILL be NOWHERE near the squadron strength required.

    F*ck me, this is atrocious, treasonous in fact.

    What's our plan? 36 Rafales + 123 Tejas? Not even going to make a dent. Hell, with even 150+ SEFs fighters, we'd still be 200 jets behind in replacing 1:1. And again, doesn't even take into account required strength for a 1.5/2 front war.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  7. Tejpal

    Tejpal Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  8. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    wait wait!
    As claimed, Dassault is helping us in AMCA, Isn't it?
    If yes, than we should have our finished AMCA before 2030.
    If still yes, than we could have our own N-AMCA for IAC-2 which will not be in service before 2035...

    Timelines are contradictory but not impossible...
     
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Rafale-M will be like the SH. We will need a replacement aircraft after the Rafale-M.

    The French want a carrier to replace the CdG.

    AMCA and N-AMCA will be available only after 2035. IN will need an aircraft from 2027 so they can have all 100 jets by 2035.
     
  10. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Even If N-AMCA will be ready by nearly 2035 than IN surely shift some numbers from Rafale to N-AMCA after judging the pace of project progress (Which will be available in 2025-2030). Along with this, If N-LCA mk2 will move ahead as planned to have its FOC between 2025-2027, some numbers surely get shifted towards them.
    Hence, I can calculate that there will be 150+ fighter jets in IN before 2040, I agreed to it , but they all are not Rafales.

    This all calculation depend on how Dassault assist ADA and HAL in AMCA development. which is still a question because AMCA will cut the future Rafale orders..
     
    sunstersun likes this.
  11. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant IDF NewBie

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    AMCA by 2035 is assuming normal developmental period of a fifth generation aircraft which took roughly took the F-35 16 years.

    First prototype(x-35) flies in 2000, first flight of F-35 in 2006, IOC 10 years later. hell look at the Rafale. prototype flew in 1986, IOC 2001. Realistically IOC was achieved in 2005.

    Any modern aircraft will need at least 15 years of development post prototype. So India needs a prototype by 2020.

    Anyone want to take a guess when India will get a flying prototype for AMCA? Basing purchases around AMCA is hilarious, no offence but India does not have the track record to have that kind of confidence. Hell I'd assume dassault and airbus's plane to not be operational before 2035.


    I'd be impressed if India got a prototype by 2025. Just think how much Russia is struggling with their program.
     
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  12. Tejpal

    Tejpal Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    You only have to look at the mess with the Tejas and FOC at the moment to not hedge one's bets on the AMCA.
     
  13. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Are you sure about that? :)

    And assuming you are correct, how does that affect the WSO? I am keen to know that ....

    PS: I hope you are aware that Su-30 had data fusion from inception and export variants were not offered the same? Also that Indians went with Israeli equipment for the same?


    The key word is, you do not know. The laughable contention of 3 hours is indicative enough. Have you asked the sortie rates and turnaround of the MKI when actually IAF is practicing for war? Psst .. it is not a correct figure ... I wonder why?
    Ask the users.



    The point was your contention of Rafale beating the MKI :) That was a load of crap and still is.



    Can you post the comparative figures? I am not aware of those off hand.



    I usually stay off aircraft threads because I do not have the figures at the back of my hand.

    But the highlighted portion?

    What do you think is propelling R-77 RVV AE PD?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  14. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Which brings me back to the claim, and why would you post information in a way that it would be misleading the members?

    It is almost like the claim of inability of Su-30MKI unable to fuse data for use by the WSO ... I am sure most of the WSO, then, maybe having severe case of enthesitis/tendinitis by now :D
     
  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    You are asking for confirmation from someone, who is known to spread misinformation and his own opinions, rather than facts, that he actually knows.

    He now even spins his claims back to Mirage 2000, vstol, or even stranger things, because he can't back up his claim!

    The fact is, that MKI don't use full radar capability in exercises, therefore can't evaluate the BVR comparison to Rafale, except in IAFs MMRCA trials in India, contrary to what he claims.

    He is also completely wrong, by claiming RBE 2 would be superior to Bars, because the performance of a radar is not only defined by the technology it uses, but primarily it's size!
    A far larger Bars PESA is more than comparable, to a smaller RBE 2 AESA, just as an IRBIS-E PESA is far superior.

    He is also just repeating the tag lines that are known in PR and the internet, things like sensor fusion, no escape zone, or IRST, but that doesn't mean he know what get is talking about, which is why he keeps avoiding a proper answer or source.


    The MKI has the advantage in radar size and IRST, especially after the upgrade. Radar as already described, the Russian IRSTs offer up to 90Km passive detection range, while Rafale doesn't have an IRST now, which makes it dependent on MICA seekers at just 30Km.

    The Rafale advantages, lie in unique capabilities, like the FSO TV channel, which provides longer range ID, or the medium range MICA IR missile, for passive IR attack at BVR range.
     

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