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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

  1. Immanuel

    Immanuel 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Why do you believe availability in the USAF is any higher? The world average in large air forces is around 50%, Besides what is the point of having 90% availability in peacetime? Most of the aircraft types have around 65-70% availability in the IAF during peacetime, war time availability can be made out to 90% during short duration of a month and 80% for sustained period of over 12 weeks.
     
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  2. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Several years ago with spare parts IAF may have been able to reach 65 percent, not at the present time.
     
  3. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Don't you think another people would have invented it just after ?
     
  4. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    1978.... it was another time. And the M2000 prototyp was far from being optimised aerodynamically at its sortie (the back has to be redesigned).

    And the most complicated is not the frame, but engine and radar. It takes 10 years to developp a new engine or a new radar...

    A beautifull plane without a nice radar or a nice engine is a king of aero show plane, not more (and less without a proper engine).
     
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  5. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    You mean to say what is the indigenous portion in Brazil's Gripen? That I don't know. I haven't actually looked into it.

    Bro, the cost of a hangar is not as much as the cost of equipment you need to support the aircraft at a base.

    The only thing I know is it has a more modern cockpit.

    There was no ToT. Cost of the Rafale has been given already.

    http://www.defensenews.com/articles/india-inks-deal-with-france-for-36-rafale-fighter-jets
    Of the total reported amount, €3.42 billion is for the cost of the platform; another €1.8 billion is for support and infrastructure supplies; €1.7 billion will be spent to meet India-specific changes on the aircraft; €710 million is the additional weapons package; and €353 million is the cost of performance-based logistics support, the MoD official said.

    It's all supporting cost.

    If you want apples to apples comparison, cost of Gripen in Brazil was $4.65B for procurement and $1.5B for 30 years of maintanance.

    Cost of Rafale in Brazil was $8.2B for procurement and $4.2B for 30 years of maintenance.

    No. Weapons integration in the first 36 is not as much right now. The plan is to integrate Indian weapons in India using Indian expertise, so we don't have to pay you for it.

    Still a factory nonetheless. The same deal for Rafale with an assembly line was $8.2B in Brazil.

    That's what I've been saying. The cost in particular is completely in Gripen's favour.
     
  6. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    If I remember correctly, IAF bought these aircraft when they had just IOC and they got their FOC in 1984. The delay was on account of developing new radar, engine and some weapon systems. What would have happened if the radar, engine and weapon systems were ready and also fully harmonised with the avionics architecture? How much time do you think M2K would have taken to enter service if these conditions were met?
    Rafale design evolved from CFD analysis mastered by you French people. It under went very detailed wind tunnel testing also to ensure that CFD data could be upgraded for more accurate results. But the truth is that from TD to final product, Rafale underwent very negligible change in aerodynamics and structure.
     
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  7. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Yeah, it's unfortunate. The navy has dug itself into a corner.
     
  8. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    That means we sold you hangars at a golden price.... not real.
     
  9. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I'm not sure. I doubt you are able now to integrate ASTRA and SPICE250 from your self. In some years, after ToT....
     
  10. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    What? Why stuck with hangars, they are a negligible cost compared to the whole deal.

    Anyway, I have given you the cost of Rafale and Gripen in Brazil.

    Brazil
    Rafale costs $8.2B
    Gripen costs $4.6B

    Nobody buys aircraft based on hangar space.
     
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Initial weapons will be integrated by France, but that's temporary, and we are paying for it. We are developing a lot of new weapons of course.
     
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  12. sunny6611

    sunny6611 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    @Averageamerican
    can ya list out the advantages to India of the offered F 16 under MII .
     
  13. PeegooFeng41

    PeegooFeng41 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I so much want to see my account balance in Roman Numerals. (j/k)

    On a different note, decimal numeral system is not completely Indian. They do not call it Hindu-Arabic numerals for kicks.
     
  14. shaktimaan

    shaktimaan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    u should ask advantages to USA not India ...lol :itching
     
  15. PeegooFeng41

    PeegooFeng41 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    During MMRCA Dessault was happy to transfer source code for Radar firmware so we can integrate whatever we want with Rafale. Do not know how is it now.
     

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