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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. WhyCry

    WhyCry Reaper Love IDF NewBie

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    I don't think so because
    1. To counter China, it has to make India stronger, important and most importantly favorable (ally).
    2. F16 has no more orders. It like a dead horse. As a businessman, he knows when to sell one.
    3. Moving F16 production line will boost the production of F-35. Thus reducing the cost for which he is nickle and diming with Lockheed martin.
     
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  2. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Requirements dictate purchase. .

    I am only trusting on Parrikar s credibility.

    Whatever wins, I did hope he had made maximum benefits out of it.
     
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  3. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    By this logic there is no need to buy outdated F16 ,as we are going to get F22 and F 24 absolutely free (of course to counter China)
    Also
    THAAD ABM
    USS Zumwalt
    USS Independence
    USS John F. Kennedy (why not)
    Seawolf class and Virginia class subs
    MQ5s
    GlobalHawks
    ..........
    (You can add any thing you want like Mackbook pro, IPhone 8,:biggthumpup: )
    All the wishlist is absolutely free to combat China.
    PS: I'm wishing like pakistani-stanis :mrgreen:
     
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  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    SE will not compete with TE or MKI. They will make a new RFP reflecting SE requirements. So being inferior to the Rafale will be irrelevant.

    The Brazilians have already signed a contract. What's better proof than that?

    Brazil offer--- 36 jets for 30 years
    Rafale: 8.2B procurement + 4B maintenance... offer
    Gripen: 4.65B procurement + 1.5B maintenance... signed contract

    How is a signed contract propaganda? It doesn't matter how much we customize the Gripen, it won't cost anywhere near the Rafale.

    And no, LM's F-16V program is nowhere as expensive as the M-2000, and comes with AESA.

    http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...16v-developed-taiwan-requirement-takes-flight
    The U.S. Air Force (USAF) awarded Lockheed Martin a $1.85 billion contract in late 2012 to begin the AESA retrofit and upgrade of 145 F-16A/B Block 20 fighters operated by the Republic of China air force.

    http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...in-looks-upgrade-500--service-f-16s/87021372/

    The M-2000 upgrade was expensive because of the smaller number of aircraft being upgraded, while the F-16 programs caters to hundreds of aircraft, not just in Taiwan.

    Both SE aircraft are cheaper than Rafale. Being SE plays a big part.
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    I think you should compare the full procurement cost, not just the unit flyaway.

    Gripen may be more expensive than the F-16 as flyaway because its hardware will be more advanced, but will be much cheaper to operate. So the consumables will make a huge difference.

    The Girpen actually has a future, whereas F-16s are being replaced globally.
     
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  6. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    There is no reason for the Gripen to be significally cheaper to operate than F-16: Engine are US, weapon system is mainly from abroad, it's pure BS from SAAB.
     
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  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The Gripen is a far more modern airframe than the F-16. And the F414 is less maintenance intensive than the F100 even if it has lower service life. F100 is expensive, especially the version needed for Block 70.

    As for weapons, most of them will be Indian or Israeli, and will have commonality with the rest of the fleet. So it's not such a big problem. For example, Gripen and Rafale can use Meteor. And we may even integrate it with the MKI, maybe even LCA. But with the F-16, we will end up buying more American weapons, and there will be less fleet commonality there. Gripen's Meteor/Asraam combo will be deadly.
     
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  8. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    First this Rafale price seemed correct. It's not the case in many posts !
    Second the F16 price seemed underestimated. This was the price of a F16 nearly ten years ago. And without IRST and AESA radar.

    to be followed.
     
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  9. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    with these kind of "IF", the earth will become flat.
     
  10. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    what about F110 ?
    even today's F100 are not the same than first ones.
     
  11. WhyCry

    WhyCry Reaper Love IDF NewBie

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    I like how you think but thats the relationship approach of the parasite state called Pakistan. I recall a think tank meeting with a US senator and DC bureaucrat. He said US-India relations are different and unique at the same time. When they speak of lets say US-Germany relations. US has 70% control and rest is Germany and it is replicated across the board. It is the reason US could not establish better relationship with India since it meant to serve US interest first.

    A HANDOUT will result in reversing the dynamics of relationship. It is built on mutual trust, interest and respect. I will not take even if US offers it for free.

    Even the DTTI program or the PM's solar program is being built on the same relationship. No handouts, both parties are making money.
     
  12. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    F100/F110 are very big and heavy engines making them more expensive. And F414 has a bigger production run.

    Plus India already has a deal for license manufacturing F414s even if it's on hold right now. So that's a huge advantage.

    If a problem comes up, it will likely affect both aircraft anyway.
     
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  13. WhyCry

    WhyCry Reaper Love IDF NewBie

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    @randomradio Can you get me the spec-sheets for F16 IN vs F16 V vs F16 70? I wanted to know the comparison and advantages.
     
  14. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Roughly the same.
     
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  15. IndiranChandiran

    IndiranChandiran Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    MP should stop being too clever by half & focus on the problem at hand .The focus of the entire thread is how will India make up for the 300 - 400 SE LCA being moth balled between now & 2025.

    Since , it's now become amply clear that the LM F-16's don't stand a chance of MII under the Trump Administration that can be safely ruled out .

    Which brings us to the Gripen.The Gripen E is scheduled to make an appearance around the same time as the LCA Mk 2 ( give or take 2-3 years )
    One can speculate that it'd be qualitatively a better AC compared to the Mk2 but only by a few degrees .

    Besides it's speculated that involving the Gripen in the Mk2 programme may kill the entire project .

    Speculation that the Gripen C/D under MII ( along with the Mk1A) also would become a long drawn out & costly affair .

    We need the replacements now & not in 2025.

    It'd make sense to strike a bargain with LM & get 100 - 120 F-16's off the shelf under a G2G contractual agreement ASAP so that we receive the first consignment by 2019 & complete the entire contract by 2024 .By doing so , we get them cheaper than under the MII programe which apart from being time consuming will also be cost intensive .More importantly , it buys the ADA / HAL time to complete the Mk2 to the satisfaction of the end users .

    We don't have to be mulish in our approach by insisting every big ticket contract be covered under the ambit of MII.

    Just my 2 cents .
     
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