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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. arbit

    arbit 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Whenever F16 were discussed @dadeechi used to immediately climb up the nearest castle and preach in a sagely voice. "The F16 are a coming. Mark my words. "
    That always gave me a good chuckle.
    I am not one bit surprised by this confirmation of F16 not coming; and frankly speaking always had my doubts about the strategic and military utility of this move. Good riddance once and for all.
    At least we can now let go of the bogey and focus on LCA.
     
  2. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri Lieutenant IDF NewBie

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    India must never be under any kind of thumb of the US military industrial complex (which have a vast array of politicians and journalists under its payroll).

    Only where there is a leapfrog technology and immediate requirement found nowhere else must one-off purchases be allowed....with the intent to learn from and develop in house over the long term (refer to green pine and awacs - circuited through israel).

    F-16 was neither of these and it seems it was a ploy to get a large part of Indian military under American influence....like large parts are already under "import-only" and "russia is best" influence.

    All of this is happening at the right time thankfully (relatively straight shooting, cards above the table leaders on both sides). I don't want to fathom what would have happened under a congress leadership here and hillary clinton there.
     
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  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Not sure who the source is, but it sound a bit biased. If we would be afraid of US sanctions, we wouldn't buy US engines for LCA, let alone all the other US stuff and the simple fact that they must have agreed to the EL2052 for AESA, which includes US parts too, makes not only clear that we can get Israeli stuff, but that they also give us at least more freedom than long term ally Pakistan for example.

    Also that there won't be any factory for F16s needs to be seen and more importantly, depends on what kind of deal it would be.
    If Modi and Trump make a G2G deal, with minor parts of the production diverted to India via offsets, Trump could still brag about jobs created / remained in the US, while Modi brags about Make in India. Win win for of them, loss for IAF, Indian defence industry and jobs creation in a India, just as in the Rafale deal now.

    At the current state and the way the government is handling defence deals, we simply can't rule it out.
     
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  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Well at least they tell us from the start what is available and what not, instead of winning and then claim issues. :mrgreen:
     
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  5. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Do American politicians believe such a deal will be signed by India?They probably still think this is Congress government which can be easily bribed to get deals and treaties like Soviets did.
    India is not some small Eastern European country to agree to deals like COMCASA,US bases in India or fighter jets without any manufacturing.US will have to treat India like Israel if it wants support of India against China
     
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  6. Flyboy!

    Flyboy! Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The ge 404 is an old engine and both ge and Rolls-Royce have R&D centers in other countries including India. P&W is true american tech and they will never share it with other countries .
     
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  7. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It's your opinion. My opinion is that Dassault followed exactly the instructions given by the MMRCA regulation, and that the problem is the one I explained and only the one I explained. Moreover, I think Dassault is investing with Reliance to have production capacities in India and has made a proposal under the Make In India, which will be presented when the DDP will be finalized.
     
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  8. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    When will DDP finalized btw?
     
  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    You mean the F16 engine? That's old tech too and keep in mind that we got approval to licence produce the GE414 engine in India for LCA MK2 as well, so they already share techs, but obviously will not divert their radar and avionics stuff.
     
  10. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    There is no exact date for these things. They will release it when they are comfortable with it. But it's going to happen very soon.
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Actually that's a fact, Dassault knew all along that the license production will be done by HAL, but complained about it only after they were selected as L1, exactly because they are investing with Reliance. So they changed the game contrary to the MMRCA regulations, for their own benefit.
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Is a new DM selected? Maybe they will wait for that to happen first and include his opinions.
     
  13. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Dassault didn't knew that HAL should not want to change its production methods and adopt that of Dassault. Under these conditions Dassault could not guarantee the quality of the productions of HAL, especially that it was also denied a power of direction of this production. This explains that Trappier is happy with 36 Rafale procured from France, it's better than to have a failure with 108 Rafale procured from India. The MII with Reliance will be a success because Reliance accept to apply the Dassault recommandations.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
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  14. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    No way will a new DM be announced so quickly. I think the DPP will be released under Jaitley.
     
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  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Please pic, that's a lame excuse. Dassault could had asked the government or HAL over the whole MMRCA how they plan to build the fighters at HAL, but Dassault obviously can't dictate the production way. That claim is even more strange by the fact that Dassault is advertising with their long relations with India and HAL.

    Also it's wrong that Dassault was not allowed the direction of the production! The Mod and IAF had confirmed that publically, but Dassault wanted to divert the final assembly to Reliance and that's completely against the tender regulations.

    I told you back then that this issue can cost Dassault the deal!
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017

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