Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

Tags:
  1. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,794
    Likes Received:
    1,398
    Country Flag:
    France
    You're right.
    Gripen is nice for country that doesn't need to be ready for war : Swiss, Brazil (and Sweden)... Nice plane to recognize a liner without transponder open. But too light for war.

    Better way to finish your own light fighter. Closed this 30 years tech effort by putting this plane, even not perfect, to frontline squad.
     
    IndiranChandiran and Pundrick like this.
  2. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,794
    Likes Received:
    1,398
    Country Flag:
    France
    @dadeechi was wrong also on Rafale deal. Some days before he said the deal will never happend !
    He's one of the most misinformed guy of this forum :fie:
     
    dadeechi likes this.
  3. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,794
    Likes Received:
    1,398
    Country Flag:
    France
    I think you're wrong.
    Dassault knows HAL from time. If HAL was a good partner, what was the interest for DA not to play the game?
    Reality is that HAL is a big and old elephant. See all the failures in the recent past ! Even indians top brass know that.
    All partner except HAL is better.

    The way of Dassault is to make a good deal or nothing. A good deal = to earn money, and to give the customer a nice product. HAL Rafale production was not a good deal. And Dassault was ready not to continue like that.
     
  4. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,794
    Likes Received:
    1,398
    Country Flag:
    France
    11 plane by year in one shift.
    Next year it will be 22/year (two shift). 33/year if some more customers are signing (UAE, Malaysia, IN ....)

    Dassault, with 14000 employees, studied and built 11 to 22 Rafale and 60 to 80 Falcon/year.

    How many employees for LM? How many planes built?
     
  5. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,139
    Likes Received:
    3,141
    Exactly with ToT to produce the figher, but it was never stated that HAL has to adobt the same ways that Dassault uses. So Dassault has to find ways with HAL to make it happen, not just say our way or no way.
    HAL never refused anything, since they were ready to work with Dassault, sadly Dassault tried everything to divert the assembly to RIL, just as the issues about liquidated damages and guarantees were only made up by Dassault after the selection later too.

    Not really since both the current and the former Air Chief stated that the deAl is not enough and as I showed, several other for me IAF officials questioned the importance of just 36 fighters.

    You just ignore the fact that IAF is getting 90 less than they wanted, just as the defence industry is getting hardly 2.7 billions investments, instead of around 10 billions investments including critical techs that MMRCA promised them.
     
  6. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,113
    Likes Received:
    5,911
    Country Flag:
    France
    It will be done with the Rafale production in India in the Frame of MII. If MMRCA was not canceled we would still wait for Strategic Partnership Model to close it.
     
  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,139
    Likes Received:
    3,141
    That's the problem, although Dassault knows HAL and although they have no issues with HAL making upgrades on M2Ks, they turned their backs at them in MMRCA after they made a JV with Reliance and wanted to force GoI and MoD to deviate from the tender regulations and give Reliance the final assembly. That's widely reported and confirmed by IAF and MoD officials.
     
  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,139
    Likes Received:
    3,141
    That's a hope that I share, but when you look at the official statements of the former DM for example, it's clear that the government is planing a different route.
     
  9. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,113
    Likes Received:
    5,911
    Country Flag:
    France
    Yes but the DM has left and the other solutions will fail. The IAF will come back in the game. If the DM was against the deal it was because he got circumvented by MODI.
     
  10. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,139
    Likes Received:
    3,141
    Which still doesn't mean that 90 more will be procured, because the PM could had done that directly, instead of going for a small order only. With this deal he lost all the advantages the MMRCA offered and put himself in the weaker position to negotiate price and conditions too.
    The key point that the former DM and IAF however agree on, is that we need more MMRCAs, not necessarily more Rafales.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,475
    Likes Received:
    14,891
    Country Flag:
    India
    The new DM is doing exactly what previous DM wanted to do.
     
    Sathya likes this.
  12. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,113
    Likes Received:
    5,911
    Country Flag:
    France
    I thing, for the moment he is doing nothing, because when you start as a ministre everything is blocked during 6 months. I don't know if it is in normal time or IST time.
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    10,753
    Likes Received:
    5,733
    The 36 aircraft are just initial numbers. 18 options will be exercised and after that another 36 will be purchased. And these 36 will be assembled in India. This is separate from the TE MII, which will go into 100+, and they can be Rafales.
     
  14. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,475
    Likes Received:
    14,891
    Country Flag:
    India
    The recent decisions taken by new DM were actually cleared by the old DM and new DM just signed the files.
     
    Sathya likes this.
  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,139
    Likes Received:
    3,141
    Doubtful, the interim DM had this position before Parrikar and as we have seen when they switched positions, things went on immediately. So at least for now there is no need to stall from that side. But then again, the 36 are still not fixed yet.
     

Share This Page