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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That is just your claim, without any base. More over it makes no sense to make 2 small orders, when the final aim is 1 large order anyway. So let's not go to speculations please.
     
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  2. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    If India wants to play against its interests it's its right, but I do not believe it.
     
  3. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Even I think that India will order more from France instead of MII. The final number could be as high as 80-90 jets in total. 36 is not the final figure.
     
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  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The option clause allows for another 18 at the same price as the original 36. So I do think that we will order more as direct purchase instead of going in for MII. The new orders might cum with some TOT as part of offsets.
     
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  5. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    It's not speculation. The contract is secondary, the IGA is the main structure. We have placed orders for 2 bases for the 36 jets. And we have paid $2B for modifications.

    So 36+18+36. And then an order for 90+ jets through TE MII. That will bring the numbers to 200+ as wanted by the IAF.

    You forget that it is the IAF which sets up RFPs.
     
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  6. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The second order of 36 will be part of MII itself.
     
  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Again it's interest are MMRCA fighters, not necessarily Rafale. India is just in a bad position now, because the PM made a poor decision, that didn't helped anybody and because of the problems created by Dassault.

    If there is an option for 18 more it doesn't make any sense for IAF or for the Indian defence industry, because we don't get the needed fighter numbers, nor any useful industrial input. Offsets are mainly used to divert production to India for the benefit of reduced manufacturing costs, but they don't have to be related to the procurement. Not to mention that offsets for 18 more doesn't get us anything in value anyway.
     
  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    =>

    http://m.thehindubusinessline.com/e...e-more-rafale-fighter-jets/article9581623.ece
     
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  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I told you that we may not have Rafale under MII but direct import from France and I have maintained this for last over two years.
    I also said that in case of MII, the actual figure cud cross over 200 mark.
     
  10. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    How will govt. justify direct import of 36-72 without any MII and 2-3 Billion USD for specific customizations?
     
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    He is referring to a full production line with ToT. What I'm talking about is the final assembly will be done by Reliance like how the MKI was assembled in kits.

    Reliance will have the ability to produce 50% of the Rafale by the time the contract for the 36 are done.

    Right now we are formulating a strategy so that we can manufacture the last tranche of 20 Rafales for UAE also.
     
  12. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Offsets will bring in R&D work.
     
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    And how did HAL learn how to assemble those kits? Via ToT, because the Russians provided them with the necessary know how and tooling. That's exactly what Dassault wants to do only for an order of around 100 fighters, which makes you claim's baseless.

    They don't have anything yet...

    https://indiandefencereview.wordpre...ps-reliance-to-manufacture-200-kamov-226/amp/


    Oh please. We haven't even fixed the contract for 36 off the shelf, have no production facility in place, UAE is not even negotiating about Rafales, but you already know that we will produce fighters for them. :disagree:
     
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  14. Ved Mishra

    Ved Mishra Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    There is no aircraft manufacturing entity in India other than HAL for fighters. By choosing Reliance, Dassault has shut down the MII for Rafale. It could only be an assembly line at best. That is exactly the reason SAAB has a chance if it selects HAL as it's partner for complete ToT. It can be JV with HAL on lines of Brahmos. Just my thoughts....
     
  15. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    The reality is quite opposite. Without a private production line you will see Tejas die at just 123 aircraft.

    Further HAL under immense Hard work and excellent work ethics has already successfully dragged down the Su30MKI production from 15 in 2014 to 12 in 2016, when the opposite should have actually happened.

    Dassault has chosen the best available option in India.

    Any fixed wing aircraft project, if associated with HAL will die a premature death and will also be the cause of Indian Airforce Loss in case of a war.
     

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