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F22 analysis expanded

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by Picard, Apr 13, 2012.

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  1. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I think most of the US allies have found the US reliable, S Korea, Japan, UK,,Germany, even the French as difficult as they can be.
    The effort needed to move from a demonstrator to a protoype and then to a serial prototype thenserial production is huge. A demonstrator is relatively easily built and does not need to meet al the requirements for capability, producability, maintainalbility . The PAK-FA and India has a long way to go.

    Another reason India can not depend on the Russians is the west is no threat to Russia, the real threat is to there east, the Chinese. China and Russia has had problems in the past and they will again in the future as the Chinese move in the Russian border areas and the demand in China grows for natural resources and living area, at the same time the Russian population is declineing. Its just a matter of time.
     
  2. neil_diablos

    neil_diablos Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yes exactly! So you do agree that the PAK FA is in the prototype stage and yet you keep on bashing the PAK FA knowing that it is yet to evolve and has a long way to go and the by the time the PAK FA/FGFA goes into production, it will address the requirements and specs of the IAF and the RuAF.

    Russia ceased to be a threat to the US after USSR broke up! The main threat to the US and I daresay the world today are the terror groups and the Islamic factions. China being a rising superpower is also naturally deemed a threat and India is the best option for the US to counter the growing Chinese threat. The US knows and respects that, which is why they are all too keen to deepen ties with India and are desperate to gain our trust!
     
  3. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I am not sure desperate is the right word...it would be an advantage to both India and USA to be allies, but as India is next door to China it has more to gain or lose.
     
  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    These so called allies of USA actually became slaves of USA after WW2 or 1954. USA as a democracy does not tolerate any Democracy in the world. They are very happy with Dictators.
     
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  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    We can live with China. Can you accept china as the only super power? We have only a small border dispute with them. They also know that war requires very large humen resources. If India goes with US/Nato, China will have a big problem. We saved china even in WW2 and later.
     
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  6. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The only thing certain about the future is nothing is certain about the future. " What India has learnt from the Chinese invasion is that in the world of today there is no place for weak nations... We have been living in an unreal world of our own creation."
    Jawaharlal Nehru, Rajya Sabha, 1963 Saveing China in World War II did not protect India in 63.

    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1974028,00.html

    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1890251,00.html
     
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  7. Firemaster

    Firemaster Captain STAR MEMBER

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    Agreed with bold part
     
  8. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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  9. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I think China becoming a superpower is an impossibility because, besides business, China has nothing to offer the world. Even if you overlook for a moment that Confucian values are antithetical to Enlightenment values, China doesn’t meet the definition of a developed nation. In 2010, the UN listed it as being in 92nd spot on its Human Development Index, and China is listed in 94th spot in terms of GDP per capita by the IMF. China’s GDP per capita is a scant $7,519. China doesn’t even have anything to offer Taiwan, a country with which it shares a culture, a language, and historical overlap. China has over a thousand missiles in Fujian ready to roll out and point at the “renegade province” if it doesn’t comply with its wishes. Not surprisingly, 89 percent of Taiwanese citizens don’t want anything to do with China. And why would they? Taiwan is democratic, much wealthier – 20th in terms of GDP per capita at $35, 227 – and so much more progressive. If that’s how China treats its “family,” how is it going to treat its “friends?”

    Even with a GDP equal to the USA it will have a massive number poor people and undeveloped areas. It takes a lot more than China has to become a super power and one thing China does not have is any philsophy that would attract belivers, like communism or religion, while the USA as tired as it has is still the beacon those that believe in freedom, democracy and liberty.
     
  10. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I wont say never but I dont see that much differance between China and India and I doubt if India will ever be a superpower. India is a large rural country. It has a huge population which is highly illiterate. Its an agricultural based society and not an industrial society. It still uses the caste system. 900,000,000 Indians live below the poverty level. The Best India can do, is become another Brazil. It is an South American power, but not a Super-Power. It shares its power in South America with Argentina. Both India and Brazil have huge populations, racial and religious problems, poverty, huge natural reserve, large armies, crime, corruption, and large cities. Brazil in the 1980's gave up its aspirations to become a global power, but instead lowered its expectations into becoming a regional power and for a brief time pursued making a Nuclear Bomb as Argentina was developing one as well. By early 1990's both South Africa, Brazil and Argentina had given up making Nuclear Weapons. Well both Pakistan and India have nuclear weapons. Pakistan and India are both regional powers. India cannot differentiate itself from Pakistan, saying Pakistan is an insignificant country while India is a global power. India will always remain a regional power. Its landlocked geography, and surrounded by Pakistan and China will always impede its global aspirations. Just like Germany tried but never succeeded in becoming a Global power due to its geography of France on the West and Russia on the East. The Best India can do is become another Brazil. And think of Pakistan as an Argentina. A smaller version of Brazil but very important none-the less. And by the way: Developing Software doesnt make anyone a Superpower. The consumers are still the west. So when India starts outsourcing jobs overseas, then it maybe possible. but that will never happen.
     
  11. imsiddhartha

    imsiddhartha REGISTERED

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    I don't want to get into an argument with a fool... It clearly shows you nothing about... getting into an argument with you will only lower my standard
     
  12. Himanshu Pandey

    Himanshu Pandey Don't get mad, get even. STAR MEMBER

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    I don't like to burst your day dreaming but it is necessary... Yes India is a rural nation with most of its population living in villages but this is changing, those villages are becoming like sub urban area... it will take few decades when these areas will become urban, but it will never be urban as per western cities because India is not in west and has its own way of living life, there are several problems within India but GOI from last several years is working to overcome from them and the problems are reducing...

    For example there is a Bharat Nirman Program in which all Infertile lands are being converted into fertile lands, all the towns are getting banking system, India is opening a bank branch in every village with population more the 500 and connecting them by road... every year 20000 megawatts are getting added to power sector... the living standards are changing drastically within India, even some of most poor are using Mobiles and quiet aware of a lot of things happening around them...

    there are illiterate Indians but not like most Indians are illiterate just see the 2011 census data it will open your eyes.. on economy front the way we are calculating our GDP is wrong as it doesn't cover all of the Indian industrial and service area..

    there are several small organisations which earn from 5 lac to 10 lac rs. per year but not registered anywhere or not paying Income tax because of inefficiency of tax department, the rate for labours are around 250 rs. daily which make them people earning around 7000 rs. monthly atleast. then there are small farmers who produce and sell there goods in local market and whom data never goes into Indian GDP data... there are a lot of public transports and their drivers whose records are not with government... they earn and live a comfortable life without getting registered.. it is changing with UID and a lot of other programs the data for all these people are getting collected... India is working on a method to find out the exact or near to exact agricultural production, industrial production and service providers as some small service providers work on personnel relations and do all the transitions in cash which save them from government records.

    you will not believe this that the unaccounted GDP or Black economy of India is as BIG as its recorded GDP... so on the PPP term which is more authentic in comparison of Nominal GDP presently India is 4.5 trillion $ economy and if we add this black economy too this will be doubled which is around 9 trillion $... which makes Per capita Income near to 1 lac/annum which is not that bad on Indian standard.

    government is taking necessary steps to transfer this black economy into white economy.. presently only 19 % Indians pay their taxes but when the coverage of all these will be completed this will be more then 30 %.. present tax GDP ration of India is around 18 % which will be increased to almost 26 % and it can make India a country with no budget deficit.... yes we need to do a lot for this and we are doing this with each passing day..

    on International front India already has a soft power which is almost equal to some developed nations and certainly more then most of nations, we have hostile borders on North, west and east but we are working on solving them.. with Bangladesh, Mayanmar, Nepal, Bhutan most border disputes are solved... there are some disputes with China and Pakistan.. and we are working to increase our relation with these countries to solve them.. these are mostly border issue because of what there is hostilities in Subcontinent once solved it will change the things.. may be take some decades..

    once france and britain both were super power and existed together with a narrow sea Between them same is in the case of India and china both can be superpowers with Himalayan range between them.. Pakistan is basically facing problem because of its wrong decision in past and its wish to be different from India and love for USA... all these things are changing there... even there are few pakistanis who condemn terrorism, and different Identity life Arab identity rather then subcontinent and most of them hate USA so they are undoing there wrong on a slow speed but we all know in the start speed is always slow...

    India is neither Germany nor Brazil, none of them were super power in their all history, Germany retained power in first half of 20th century and soon got crushed, brazil was just brazil.. India was a super power in its history for several times and contributed to world with a lot of things like 0, number system, earth rotation theory, Pie, Pythagoras theorem (which was originally Indian theorem)calculating earth weight and mass, metallurgy, first urban civilization, 4 peaceful religions, epics, literature, knowledge trade and culture..

    Alaxander got defeated in India, Rome never came near to India, Arab never were able to conquer India which put almost all Europe to turmoil and were reason for end of roman empire, turks got their success because of the political turmoil In India and same goes with british... so my dear friend we contributed a lot to this world, we had fought, won and lost many wars, we changed the way people live more then USA will ever do and all without a war(read the history of south east Asia, Persia, East Asia, China and if you like then read history of Rome and Greeks too).. So if we have problem today it doesn't mean these problems will always be there... pakistan was a creation of British Raj for controlling the Indian subcontinent and stopping it from achieving its full potential but a lot of people on both side of border understand this and in time all will accept this...

    when it will happen it means a lot of trade between subcontinent countries as most of our requirements are same and unique from others so we will be more able to fulfill them, which increase trade, create job and good for economy... and decrease the hostility on borders which will free the armed forces to save Indian interest on more aggressive way aboard..

    no one has become a super power in life time.. it take few hundred years to be a super power and our journey has just started...

    yes there are a lot of bad things happening around here but there are more good things which are happening around here.. sit tight and watch carefully India will be a super power in few decades..
     
  13. Devil

    Devil Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    pandey ji kamaal kar diya good job
     
  14. neil_diablos

    neil_diablos Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Himanshu, do you really expect AA to understand all that? No matter how many facts you throw at his face, he will still come back with his pointless arguments. What he does not realize is, we have no intention of catching up with US because that is not practically possible right now. However, we are trying to catch up with China and are keen to establish ourselves as a regional power for now. Once we get there, things are bound to change. For crying out loud, US became an independent country in the 1700s when India was the second richest country in the world and the US economy was nowhere closer to the Indian economy. The British then looted India for 200 odd years and left us with a pathetic economic condition. Just imagine where India would be now, had the British not colonized India.

    Even then, India now is ranked 3rd in the world in terms of PPP List of countries by GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    But do you think AA will even consider these facts in his arguments? It would be more practical to expect Satan spew ice from his butthole than expect AA to display even a semblance of rationalism!
     
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  15. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    According what I said India like China and Brazil are a regional power, but unlikely to beccome a supper power. There is a lot more to being superpower then just the PPP. The basic components of superpower stature may be measured along four axes of power: military, economic, political, and cultural but in addition you need scientific and education, and you need something to believe in, like universal ideology -democracy, liberty freedom, communism, religion that attracts followers.

    In the opinion of Professor Paul Dukes, "a superpower must be able to conduct a global strategy including the possibility of destroying the world; to command vast economic potential and influence; and to present a universal ideology". Although, "many modifications may be made to this basic definition".[21] According to Professor June Teufel Dreyer, "A superpower must be able to project its power, soft and hard, globally."[22]
     
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