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F22 Analysis, News and Updates

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by Picard, Feb 25, 2012.

  1. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Fighters are not going to last very long if they dont have a base to go back to, between drones, cruise missiles, F22s, F35s they will be lucky to even get off the ground.
     
  2. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    And yes, I DO have a clue. More than you, at least. You do realize that guided munitions are not 100% precise, and faster they go, easier is it to miss?
     
  3. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    F22s and F35s will never get anywhere neat anyone's base, as long as that base has VHF radar and/or IRST.
     
  4. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Right thats why they call them stealth planes so VHF radar and /or IRST can target them.
     
  5. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    No, they call them stealth planes beacouse UHF radars have trouble detecting them, let alone targeting them. But any fighter-sized target will be quite visible against VHF radar and IRST - especially if supersonic - VLO or not.
     
  6. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    picard mate there are 2 main advantages of F22 raptor
    1.Mini awacs feature : i.e 1 raptor would be in active mode( radar turn on) & rest all f22 would be in passive mode ( radar turn off) & all would depend on active mode Raptor for detection of target either aerial / ground target .This would help them in remaining passive for stealth reasons & can engage
    their targets without any fear of being spotted by enemy' RWR .

    AWACS can be destroyed from long range from anti radiation / awacs killer missiles being developed like KS novator
    BVRAAM which states to have a range of 250 -300km but they dont have
    ability of High G manuveurs like active radar guided BVRAAM so they cant be used agaisnt F22 .

    Also fighter can dodge any missile with manuverabilty + ECMs but AWACS cant do manuverabilty
    like fighter but have to depend only on ECMs .


    So F22 as mini awacs is more useful compare to traditional AWACS .

    2. ALR 94 system : F22 amazing abilty
    of passive detection of targets when they are in active mode (radar turn on) from 200 km away &
    also cueing of long range ramjet powered BVRAAM without turning on it's aesa radar for stealth
    reason is also another amazing ability of raptor .
    F22 raptor's strength lies in BVR warfare & they would try their best to fight in BVR warfare rather
    than engaing their enemy in within visual range warfare .

    I know PK of BVRAAm are less but todays BVRAAM are developed a lot like
    I) ACTIVE radar guided
    II) IMPROVE IMMUNITY TO ECMs
    III) RAMJET powered
    IV) more powerful WARHEAD
    V) Capable of high G turn
    Vi) cueing from passive detectors without turning on their own radar in it's missile & at's it' terminal stage turning on it's
    active radar seeker of the missile
    VII)smokeless rocket motor for stealth reason


    SO time would tell in future how BVRAAM kill propablity would increase in future wars or not . IF not then F22 is really a turkey not raptor :lol:
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2012
  7. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    Except that uplinks can be detected and/or jammed.

    True.

    Depends.

    It's not the only one; most modern fighters can detect radiating planes, and anti-radiation missiles can guide themselves at radar emissions, and possibly IFF emissios as well. So planes will turn off IFF and radar; which makes BVR impossible.

    Which is one of main problems with the plane. BVR combat solves very little to nothing.

    I) unreliable
    II) until ECM is improved too
    III) makes them faster and more difficult to evade but doesn't adress any other major issue of BVR combat
    IV) and? There is limit to that.
    V) fighters are becoming more capable too, with development of new anti-G suits
    VI) can't be done if either target or plane that fired it don't irradiate
    VII) improvement, but IR signature stays the same

    It will increase and then decrease again. But it probably won't be very large change and will happen within F22s lifetime.
     
  8. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    AWACS Radar range 250 miles (375.5 kilometers), its really more but classfied, and can be unlimited with present technology and 1.5 billion is being spent on upgrades, think of radar with binoculars, a lot is being spent on electronic counter measures. But the real advance is the use of data from all the other components of the battle field, combat drones, radar drones, F22, F35, etc. I just dont think you all can appreciate how far the US military has advanced in the last ten years, an of course by spending almost as much as the rest of the world combined on military research we should be more advanced.
     
  9. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    yes they are stealth but to the traditional radar systems,
    VHF radars are made for the sole purpose of detecting the Stealth fighters.
    F-22, F-35 and the PAK FA all these are optimized to fool the X-Band Radars.
    VHF radars use X-Band along with other bands like L-Band,
    for which these fighters are not optimized for.

    But for the most Part,
    very few countries in the world have VHF radars capable of detecting the above said fighters,
    so the stealth fighters can relax :pop:
     
  10. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    thats true at supersonic speed,
    like when super cruising IRST sensors will pick them up.
     
  11. gambit

    gambit FULL MEMBER

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    And yet, the F-16 is an undisputed success of being a 'jack-of-all-trades'. The F-16 was originally conceived to be the undisputed WVR air-air combat fighter. Regardless of internal Pentagon politics, and yes, am well aware of the 'Fighter Mafia', the F-16's accidental and highly successful 'jack-of-all-trades' status cannot be ignored by those who would disparage the class. Even the still formidable F-15 and still quite king of the sky F-15 is saddled with the same mission with the Strike Eagle variant. Put aside 'stealth', the F-16 is still the standard of this class that all aspirants must be held against.

    As pointed out with the F-16, your 'analysis' is kindly put as -- off base. The goal a 'jack-of-all-trades' is not merely to do many things but to do many things at least half as well as a dedicated entity. A medic is not a doctor but in a pinch, whatever medical skills he possess will be 'good enough'. A sniper have his uses but in a heated battle, ten marksmen with each with half the sniper's skills will be more than 'good enough', in fact, any army would be formidable if all of its shooters have half the skills of the sniper.

    I have seen the technical deficiencies of those arguments and unfortunately am not yet able to post images to illustrate the foundational principles of my arguments. Suffice to say that you are at least mistaken in many areas, if not outright wrong.

    Infrared detection have its own limitations. Contrary to your argument, IR sensors do not like to process exhaust stream data but rather of IR intensity directly from the exhaust itself. The reason is exhaust stream can be affected by the atmosphere with its own air currents that can quickly dilute any IR intensity. Direct exhaust IR sources, on the other hand, pretty much sticks with the jet. If there are physical barriers in the sensor's field-of-view, such as the F-35's horizontal stabs from the lateral view, the IR sensor will have almost no chance of picking up that direct exhaust IR intensity. Because I cannot yet post links to support my arguments, you must search out for yourself the F-35's visual representations. See how recessed the engine exhaust is between the horizontal stabs. Against the F-35, the best IR sensor will have to be the imaging kind and not many countries have the technical sophistication on designing and manufacturing IR imaging sensors.

    I will put it this way and you should do well to remember: In a fight, you win not by fighting under your opponent's rules but by forcing him to fight under yours. And cheating is allowed.

    If we can force adversaries to fight under our rules, we already won, and with the F-22 and F-35, we pretty much forced everyone to fight under this 'stealth' rule and it will be a long time before anyone can come up with their own rules.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2012
  12. gambit

    gambit FULL MEMBER

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    The data links are usually burst, not continuous stream. Adversarial jamming, say from ground sources, would have to be wide band and so powerful that transmitter location(s) would attract beamrider missile attacks.

    Which will also make radar detection of any aircraft impossible. The F-22 has been characterized as an 'antenna farm' with its many conformal antennas strategically located over its body. Any seeking radar transmission will be processed and calculated as to its source direction and pulse characteristics. The system with its many antennas to provide as many off angle correlative analysis as possible of the seeking transmission can guide a missile towards the seeking radar. After a period of being externally guided, the missile can turn on its own radar and <poof> goes the target. What I said was that since there are many antennas at different locations on the F-22's body, at least two of them will detect the same seeking transmission, and because they are at different locations, they will be able to perform some measure of triangulation of the seeking radar regarding its source direction.

    Then I guess the sniper is useless.

    Active radar guidance is hardly 'unreliable' today. If anything that can degrade a missile's success, it would be the missile's flight control system.
     
    Qwertyness and DrSomnath999 like this.
  13. gambit

    gambit FULL MEMBER

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    Air Dominance - The ability of an air force to compel other air forces (friends and foes) to re-array themselves, usually into inferior postures, upon entering a contested airspace.

    Air Superiority - The ability of an air force to achieve complete control of a contested airspace and if there are any losses, those losses would not pose a deterrence for this air force to repeatedly re-assert control upon returning to the same area.

    Air Supremacy - He flies, he dies.

    With its low radar observability that is beyond current systems, the F-22 can secure Air Supremacy in both kills and scaring the opposition air forces into staying on the ground.
     
  14. gambit

    gambit FULL MEMBER

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    No. Airborne radars can only be replaced by orbital ones. Not likely soon.

    Possibly under this 'stealth' rule we have imposed upon air forces worldwide.

    And how many air forces can bring a 30-1 ratio against US? Be realistic, please. And your arguments against BVR missiles are laughable.

    Not in LPI mode.

    Data links are bursts, not stream, and the detector would have to be looking in the correct direction to start. Failed argument.

    The opening and closing speed of the missile bay door is too brief for any radar to get a secured direction, let alone a track, assuming the seeking radar is looking at the correct direction in the first place. Another failed argument.

    Infrared do not offer range information. At best, IR can only offer direction.
     
  15. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    hello sir nice to have u here:dance3:,i hope u can enlighten us with ur wisdom
     

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