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F22 Analysis, News and Updates

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by Picard, Feb 25, 2012.

  1. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    why do not make a F-35 thread sticky, that jet is really cool and a must
     
  2. SamBahadur

    SamBahadur 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    i disagree to some extent though F22 is the best PAKFA can become a F22 killer under some circumstances.
     
  3. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Like circumstances that are never going to happen. Its kind of like saying if a bullfrog carried a shotgun it would not be afraid of water snakes.
     
  4. jagjitnatt

    jagjitnatt Major ELITE MEMBER

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    PakFa can not be a F-22 killer simply because Russia doesn't have the technical expertise and money. Technical expertise to some extent, but money, nope.

    PakFa can be 70% of F-22. No more.

    PakFa counters F-22 by being best at 2 things, where F-22 is exceptional at 5-6 things.
     
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  5. Nick 779

    Nick 779 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    F-22 is a white elephant. Why do you think its numbers were capped from 750 to 187. It has problems with its on-board oxygen supply, stealth coatings that cannot withstand sun or rain, has a high rate of service periods after sorties and is damn costly to maintain and operate. I also foresee the same problems for F-35, T-50 AND J-20.

    After the Rafales and the Typhoons, it will be the unmanned combat vehicles.:rafale:
     
  6. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    One thing the F22 does is force any airforce that wants to compete with the USA to spend billions to reach a level where their planes are more then just targets. Lets say India has 1200 fighters that could oppose the usa. 20 F22s and 200 fighters would be able to take them out with perhaps 10 percent loss to US forces. Thats about 3 aircraft carriers worth of planes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
  7. Nick 779

    Nick 779 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    No out of these 1200 aircraft, India will crash 600 of them. :suicide:
     
  8. SamBahadur

    SamBahadur 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    yes i agree russians aint hav dat much money .In stealth design F22s are miles ahead from PAKFAs :tup:, but wat about ECM where PAKFAs hav an upper hand . :tdown: will you please mention those exceptional things :smile:
     
  9. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    now plz dont turn this thread into PAKFA VS F22 thread
     
  10. SamBahadur

    SamBahadur 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    sorry no more trolls :LMAO:
     
  11. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I dont think ECM will be much help, I doubt if they F22 will be emitting any electronic or radar signals, that will be done by drones and AWACS. F22 and F35 are one big antenna, more then 30 of them from what I hear.
     
  12. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    F-22 is better in stealth and at the end of the day that it is better, but i am sure PAKFA is better as dogfighter

    why?

    up to what i read, any fighter has an Ideal turn rate, i mean if you see most jets have an ideal turn rate with 50% fuel and weapons, many of the figures for turn rates quoted for fighters you see are at that configuration.

    To give you an example it is said the F-20 could out turn an F-18 but only without external stores, once armed the F-18 was better, the answer is drag, higher drag means less lift.
    The F-20 armed will generate more drag and by being singled engined reduce the thrust available to counter that induced drag, thus armed the F-18 is better and has higher turn rate

    Instantaneous turn rate equals max lift at max AoA attainable, while sustained turn equal max steady turn rate where lift is balanced by drag and thrust, less drag higher sustained turn rate.

    Fifth generation fighters have very good turn rates because they have no external weapons stores, thus they generate less drag
    If you compare any fourth generation fighter with a fifth generation one, you will find the fourth generation fighter without external stores has actually better aerodynamics than the fifth generation fighter because they usually do not have stealth compromises, but the fifth generation fighters by carrying no external stores actually turn better, also fifth generation fighters use TVC nozzles that increase turn rates thus they usually have better turn rates than fourth generation jets.



    The Russians made a study and found F-22 by having a larger cross section actually generates more drag than Su-27, however the trick of the Russians was the Su-27 was empty without no external stores, add external stores and the Flanker is way much draggier.
    thus Sukhoi chose Su-27 as the base of PAKFA to out perform F-22

    If you see the numbers of Eurofighter and F-22 you find both jets also are very close in wing loading and thrust to weight ratio, in fact the Eurofighter has slightly better numbers, however the Eurofighter can only compete with F-22 empty, add weapons, and the Eurofighter has lower turn rate, thus at the end F-22 will out perform both Su-27 and Eurofighter; but PAKFA will not use external stores.
     
  13. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    There's a fundamental difference in principle behind the F-22 and the T-50. The ATF programme honed in on an aircraft as an amalgamation of every technical aspect: The airframe, avionics, powerplant and weaponry were all developed side by side, to ensure complete dominance over current and future air threats. The T-50, on the other hand, was built largely around an engine design well into development before the PAK FA project received full government backing. The item 117 (evolution of the AL-41) was designed around the P&W powerplant powering the YF-22/23. It received backing BEFORE the current T-50 designed was approved.

    The T-50's focus on the Russian 4th generation principles aren't necessarily a strength. Look at Russian BVR philosophy. It is going to be difficult to fire off salvos multi-sensor BVR missiles when the T-50 can only carry 6 internally. That's basically 3 shots and you're out. Flankers carry twice the firepower. But the PAK FA project also honed in on the percieved weaknesses of the F-22 (lack of sensor fusion, limited integration of sensors). Time will tell how effective this will be.

    Its like a repeat of the 3rd generation again: Both the F-22 and the PAK FA are comprised of pointless compromises based on features that are limitedly understood. Unlike the 3rd generation, these two are probably never going to fight against each other.

    Wrong choice of word in probably: Hopefully.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
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  14. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    i meant aerodynamically speaking, the cross section of the F-22 is draggier due to stealth considerations, so PAKFA follows more or less Su-27 to reduce the drag that internal weapons bays create by increasing the cross section area, F-35 has a large cross section thus it has been critized of inferior performance than even F-16

    [​IMG]

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    The Russians claim they do not use S ducts to reduce frontal cross section area and thus drag, thus reducing drag and weight and improving performance
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  15. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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