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First India-made Dassault Falcon will fly in 2022: Reliance

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Industry' started by Gessler, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    We lack a private company that can produce components as well as carry out final assembly of a fighter/civil aircraft locally, using many components it produces itself. With DRAL, we hope to create such a company.

    Toward that end goal, we are taking the first steps.

    However this shouldn't be an area that can be monopolized by a single private company, there will be another - Tata (with F16 and C295) or Adani (with Gripen). But Reliance (with Falcon and hopefully Rafale) is already ahead of these two as far as having a clear-cut plan for local aircraft production goes. Tata's plans for C295 haven't gotten anywhere. Maybe Tata's error was not going with production of an aircraft that isn't necessarily entirely reliant on local orders. Reliance has adopted a more globally-oriented approach.

    Tata is still stuck with component-production, there aren't even any solid plans for a final assembly line using locally produced components. IMO, Reliance has scored a win by making sure it's first real component-production contract has a clear roadmap to develop into a localized final assembly line that directly ties in to Dassault's global supply chain.
     
  2. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    And @PARIKRAMA said us that a DRAL Rafale will cost 640 Crores instead of 800 for a French Rafale, so the same reduction for the Falcon will increase the order book.
     
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  3. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Did you apply the cost escalation to this price based on French CPI? it will be costlier but paidfor by in majority INR. Please do not fool yourself.No one leaves an easy goat for meat.
     
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Dassault considers India a very important market for civilian airliners.
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Falcons have nothing to do with offsets. Dassault wants to make Falcons in India for the same reason Hyundai makes cars in India, it's to escape import duties and become more competitive.

    In India, if you buy defence equipment, you are required to only provide defence related offsets. Falcon is civilian technology, hence nothing to do with offsets.
     
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  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Why complaining if Dassault wants to setup its Falcon line in India? The Indian taxpayer is not paying for it, Dassault is making an investment in order to sell their aircraft to Indians and export it to other countries. Ford is doing that in India with their cars.

    Dassault is not bringing their latest line of Falcons to India yet.
     
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  7. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Do you know something? anyone who can make arts for bi-cycles with exact specifications can also make parts for aircraft. can you even imagine that gun factories in Kanpur, Ishapur, Thruchy can make aircraft parts or HVF, Avadi making wings of an aircraft?
    if you love your nation as much as I do, you will find solutions and not problems.
     
  8. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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  10. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Bro, why are you so confused? If someone wants to setup a factory in India using their own funds, why do you want to stop it? If Honda wants to build a factory in India, will you say no? Who cares if Tata can make a car in India using wholly Indian technology, let Honda also in.

    With Dassault building a factory in India, it will mean all their competitors will also start coming in, they will eventually start setting up factories in India. In a few years, we will start seeing Bombardier, Cessna, Gulfstream etc setting up factories for their business jets also.

    Dassault is not setting up a Falcon line in India so they can sell to the IAF, their line will sell aircraft to the millionaires and billionaires in India, people who are right now importing business jets.

    Tomorrow, if Ferrari and Lamborghini set up their sports car factories in India, will you say no to that as well?
     
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  11. proud_indian

    proud_indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Impact on Exports
    The DPP from the 2006 onwards has provided a list of eligible items
    for the purpose of the discharge of offset obligations. The list has been
    expanded over the years to include both defence and civilian items.
    What
    is significant is that the items eligible for offset discharge broadly fall under
    four categories, for which the Indian Trade Classification (Harmonisation
    System)—ITC (HS)—Codes have recently been announced (see Table
    3). Suffice to mention that these are the precise HS Code-wise categories
    under which various defence items are now being subject to industrial
    licence. 6


    https://idsa.in/system/files/jds/jds_9_4_2015_DefenceOffsetPolicy.pdf
     
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  12. proud_indian

    proud_indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    The 2013 DPP lays down the objectives of the offset policy: “The key objective of the Defence Offset Policy is to leverage capital acquisitions to develop Indian defence industry by (i) fostering development of internationally competitive enterprises, (ii) augmenting capacity for Research, Design and Development related to defence products and services and (iii) encouraging development of synergistic sectors like civil aerospace and internal security.”

    http://www.indianeconomy.net/splclassroom/101/what-is-indias-defence-offset-policy/
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    How is this price enhanced? It's pretty normal I think.

    We are paying 3.42B eur as flyaway, we are paying $2M per jet per year worth of spares for 5 years, and a separate 1.7B and 1.8B for customization and bases, which is a one-time payment. Another $1B for weapons that have no real global equivalent.And then about 20% of the deal is coming back as investments into our industry for that, and another 30% as technology for DRDO and other companies. It all looks like they haven't cheated us out of anything for this.

    In effect, if you bring in offsets also, we are paying about $5.5B in total only. That's less than 1000Cr per Rafale.

    Then, you yourself said that if their engine offsets works out, then these 36 aircraft are practically free because we will save a lot of money and time when it comes to engine development.
     
  14. proud_indian

    proud_indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @randomradio we bought PC-9 mk2 trainer aircrafts and TASL were given the contract to assembe Pilatus PC-12 against the offsets
     
  15. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Yeah, it looks pretty on paper. But the govt is not accepting civil tech into defence offsets. They are only allowing dual use tech, which they are referring to as civil tech.
     

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