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First India-made Dassault Falcon will fly in 2022: Reliance

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Industry' started by Gessler, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. proud_indian

    proud_indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I guess you are right.

    Here I agree with you without a shred of doubt.
     
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  2. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    You just don't have seen my post just on top of yours....
     
  3. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I will be sad...

    OK, just recall us how late is the Tejas ?
     
  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    If you read my posts on LSA thread, You will realise that Problem is not with skills in India, problem is HAL. They never wanted to give up on their piece of meat. Otherwise the distributed Manufacturing which they have now adopted,they cud have done earlier also. Now same HAL which had told Parrikar that they willneed two assembly lines to produce 24LCA/yr are now talking of 25/yr from one integrating line only. read the letters I wrote to Parrikar. All this is mentioned in them and I did that in 2015. He forced HAL to change its manufacturing practices.
     
  5. Angel Eyes

    Angel Eyes 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Hope there will be a Rafale MII in near future....
     
  6. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Agree on that. Second point (i was told so, i have no experience of dealing with indians) is human resource management. A friend engineer worrkin in oil business told me that mentality wasn't good as companies did not make enough efforts to keep engineers they teachedas junior in the company and that recently senior teached engineers tended to want to move too quickly, therefore a waste of accumulated knowledge. Notice it is only one thing i heard.)

    Apart from that, Falcon 2000 is a very nice plane, with very efficient aerodynamics. Dassault do believe that, due to India's size and economic internationalization there is a market for budineszs jets in India, and F-2000 would fit with its +/- 7500 kms range, it would perfectly fit indian needs (except on flights to USA that wwould need a stop). Do not underestimate this plane, it is a very nice bird.
     
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  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That's not correct, we have enough privat companies to do so, if they wanted, but apart from Mahindra, none of them have tried to go into actual development of aircrafts and till the government got PSUs out of competition, most privat players didn't wanted to invest into the necessary infrastructure either (see Avro replacement failure).

    The SPM is aimed at dealing with this problem, by giving private players long term commitments, to get them investing in the 4 segments, even though that might make us dependent on them, if not properly regulated.
     
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  8. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    We have enough companies sure - but none of them are actually doing it! Or want to, but are unable.

    Except Reliance, I can't see any other company that has a firm roadmap as of today for component production + final-assembly of any aircraft. Mahindra owns GippsAero sure, but all of their infrastructure is in Australia AFAIK. Not to mention the Airvans are nowhere as commercially high-profile as the Falcons. What we want is infrastructure in India. Reliance has scored a jackpot with this deal.

    But this situation should hopefully change in the future with Tata also becoming a major player in the final assembly business (potential deals with both F16 and S70/MH-60).
     
  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That's the point, because it was not profitable enough so far. Privat companies are not like HAL or BEL, which have to produce even for minimal benefit, because the government owns them.

    Mahindra has jointly developed a civil aircraft with NAL and if orders come in, would produce it too. Reliance didn't committed themselves to the aviation industry either, they only get offsets diverted to them. So they benefitted from the offset policy changes of the GoI, otherwise they never had made any venture into the aviation field, while try invested into the naval field by buying pipavav.
    Tata is years ahead of Reliance.
     
  10. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    In component-production, yes.

    None of their gambles in final-assembly business (like C295) were successful. This is where Reliance has stolen a lead - they're Falcon production will happen sooner than any other India-based private-sector final assembly of any aircraft - plus, their Falcon business is not necessarily reliant on Indian orders (which is a major plus for this venture).

    Anil has played this one nicely. He did not tie himself up with local orders (which take years & years to materialize) but went ahead with DRAL with international market in mind.

    Judging by recent news, it appears even SAAB-Adani are looking to build a similar venture. The words of the officials involved seem to suggest so.
     
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