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Five steps to a viable air force

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Agent_47, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    There is no truth to that statement.
     
  2. Bloom 17

    Bloom 17 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    but FGFA isn't coming anytime soon. by the time it starts production China would have already inducting over 150+ 5+ gen aircrafts. So how does the IAF plan on dealing with that?
     
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  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    They haven't, because they still try to get a counter the Chinese 4.5th gen fighters. The only solution is early procurements of Su 57 or F35. The earlier is under negotiation but currently not going well, the latter is only an option for the mid or long term, IF we make a considerable US arms deal first.
     
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  4. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Imagination and conjecture.

    Entering negotiations doesn't weaken our ✋ but strengthens it. We would extract far more concessions by putting hard cash on the table then merely posturing and promising some future pay off.
    Wrong in it's entirety

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Rafale is the same requirement namely MRCA. You were not talking about SE MII but original MRCA.
    MiG 29 not Gripen

    Once again, best option was buying Rafale in the early 2000's.
    No, that's not how it works. All our aircraft are part of a system. It may not be a highly networked and integrated system like the Yankee system but it is a system nevertheless. The dopey FGFA whensoever it arrives will be a part of this system. This system shall be capable of generating a certain number of sorties. Such sorties shall be allocated and prioritized on the basis of a number of factors, not in the least bit unimportant of which is survivability. Having aircraft that can not survive in the battlefield will result in the ones that can survive (presumably FGFA) being further stressed with more operations which will cause more attrition leaving the system more vulnerable.

    If our Frontline fighters (MiG 21, Tejas, F-16) get blown away, that immediately puts the remaining fleet under pressure. Individual aircraft aren't operating in vacuum (pun! ) but defending a shared airspace.

    There is simply no excuse for buying a jet which everyone else is busy retiring. It's just a reflection of the bad decisions we have made so far.
     
  5. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Both, the RFIs of the initial MRCA were sent to both of them, M2K-5 and F16.

    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/today/contemporary/331-mrca.html


    This then went to be the MMRCA and now is the Single Engine MMRCA, so you are right about the same requirement of course.
     
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  6. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The current crop of J-20s are not yet as dangerous as to be called 5th gen yet. It needs new high thrust engines, and serial production of jets equipped with this engine will start around the same time we will start getting FGFAs. Until then, the Rafale and Super MKI will be able to deal with the J-20 Block 1 threat. Anyway, they may produce more than 150 Block 1 jets by 2025.

    If the J-20s are a greater threat than anticipated, then there is a good possibility we will be inducting 63 Russian version jets off the shelf from Russia with interim engines. If the Rafale lives up to its claimed capabilities, we may not have to consider the interim PAK FAs. But we most definitely need a decent number of FGFA by 2030. We will know more only by 2020 or so.
     
  7. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    You have no clue how the Americans work. They screw their allies every day.

    They promised Koreans F-35 technology. After the contract was signed, they denied technology.

    http://www.defenseworld.net/news/14...echnology_Denial_For_KF_X_Fighter_Jet_Project

    Meh, that's an AESA test bed. The AESA has been tested on a Falcon also. That doesn't mean Falcons will now be equipped with AESA radar.

    What you should be talking about is operational aircraft.

    No. Rafale was not part of MRCA program. Rafale was part of MMRCA, huge difference.

    MRCA had only M-2000, F-16 and Gripen.

    Mig-29 was not in MRCA.

    Rafale wasn't available then, it wasn't ready. It became ready only after 2006 with the F3. AESA came only after 2011.

    Nope. All major offensive air operations are conducted by the main air dominance aircraft. It's only after this aircraft is successful that all other aircraft can start operating on their own. Until then, the air dominance aircraft determines victory or defeat.

    For example, if the F-16 is expected to operate inside enemy air space, the air dominance aircraft will conduct a fighter sweep, where they will try to destroy or drive away as many enemy fighter jets as possible. That's how you gain air superiority. And only after that will the F-16 fly in. Then, the F-16 is expected to fight the stragglers that the air dominance aircraft missed, or if the enemy pilots themselves were tactically smart in their approach. But they will still be conducting missions while being supported by the air dominance aircraft.

    Air defence is conducted by all air superiority aircraft, including LCA. This is totally different because it will happen over our own territory and will be supported by many other assets like AWACS.

    Basically, if our air dominance aircraft fails, then we will have to focus on air denial until such time the enemy forces the IAF to go underground and out of the war. That's why, if the FGFA is good, what flies after doesn't matter as long as minimum requirements have been met.

    We need a minimum number of Rafale because the aircraft has two engines and is safer to operate inside enemy territory and it is capable of performing fighter sweeps adequately on its own until the FGFA becomes available. But, other than that, it will perform the same missions as the F-16.

    The F-16s are not being retired. The USAF will be using 300+ F-16s even after 2050.

    http://news.lockheedmartin.com/2017-04-12-U-S-Air-Force-Authorizes-Extended-Service-Life-for-F-16

    In fact, over 500+ F-16s are expected to continue to serve worldwide in 2050, apart from our own, and Indian facilities will be responsible for the upgrade and upkeep of the entire global fleet, minus Turkey and Japan I suppose. This is a great bonus for our fledgling private industry.
     
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