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Flight of Jaguar DARIN III with AESA Radar soon: HAL

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by lca-fan, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. lca-fan

    lca-fan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Flight of Jaguar DARIN III with AESA Radar soon: HAL

    [​IMG]

    idrw.org has been informed at Aero India 2017 that, HAL and ELTA have completed ground trials, integration and installation of Elta’s ELM-2052 AESA radar on upgraded Jaguar DARIN III aircraft and first flight of Jaguar could be conducted after Aero India 2017 concluded HAL employee to idrw.org.

    Indian Air force’s main Strike aircraft Jaguar under DARIN III upgrade will be getting 28 new sensors, which will also see the integration of indigenous mission computer. ELM-2052 AESA radar on Jaguar DARIN III makes Jaguar fleet first aircraft to receive Next Generation AESA Radar technologies which will keep them technologically relevant for next decade to come.

    IAF plans to keep Jaguar DARIN III flying till 2034 and has made necessary arrangements with BAE and HAL to maintain their supply chain till 2034 when it plans to retire them. HAL is also exploring the possibility of uprating it’s 25 kN indigenous Aero Engine (Hindustan Turbo Fan Engine – HTFE 25) to 35kN-40kN thrust class so that it can be offered for Jaguar DARIN III engine replacement program.

    HAL employee has confirmed to idrw.org at Aero India 2017 that offering new indigenous Turbo Fan Engine for Jaguar is under active consideration but priority is to replace Russian-supplied NPO Saturn AL-55 turbofan engine which is used to power HAL’s HJT-36 Sitara Indian jet trainer with higher thrust class HTFE 25 engines.
    http://idrw.org/flight-of-jaguar-darin-iii-with-aesa-radar-soon-hal/
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
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  2. mugundhan

    mugundhan FULL MEMBER

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    @Nilgiri @PARIKRAMA few years back people said su 30 mki cannot have aesa radar because engine doesn't have enough power. How come 40kn engine can power 2052
     
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  3. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri Lieutenant GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    Who the hell said that? LOL.

    You will sacrifice some thrust for sure when you have radar running at full power...it will be in the range of 2 kW - 20 kW depending on radar class, generation.

    Even a turboprop PT-6 has like 500 kW at its disposal.

    40 Kn of thrust would be (assuming about 0.9 mach jet exit speed) would be around 2,500 KW at fl 350.

    I mean a 787 commercial aircraft peak electrical load is around 1 MW I believe out of about 74 MW at its total disposal.

    Using the same ratio thats about 35 kW you have at disposal for electrical load in a typical jaguar size fighter aircraft. 10 kW radar at peak? No problem, just design the FADEC to handle it.

    With SU-30 family having even more power engines, you will have an even larger envelope to run power hungry radars. I believe GaN AESA tech has lower power consumption compared to GaA.
     
  4. mugundhan

    mugundhan FULL MEMBER

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    Thanks man you the best
     
  5. lca-fan

    lca-fan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    SU 30 mki's have one of the best PESA radar Bars. Seeing threat perception both our neighbors do not have anything better than Bars so not required right now. But Super Sukhoi upgrade will see these Bars PESA radars being converted into AESA after 2020. So chill SU 30 mki are capable of AESA. And BTW, SU 30 mki will also get upgraded SU35 engines S117 with 144kn thrust so it might super cruise too.
     
  6. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    No supercruise..:angry:
     
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  7. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    Su30MKI will not get Su35s engine.

    The Agreement for Engines of Su30MKI is between HAL and Salyut.

    While the engines of Su35 are from UMPO.

    But yes, it will get a new more powerful engine.

    Right now Salyut is manufacturing AL31F M1 with 135Kn thrust and improved overall serviceability ,for the MLU of Russian Su27s to SM standard.

    Meanwhile they are developing AL31F M2 , with 140-145 kn thrust , for the MLU of Russian Su30s.

    We will get the same engines in all probability.

    [Also a common sense thing, AL41 series might be derived from AL31 but UMPO for more power has designed it with more diameter, simply meaning it cannot be used upon Su27/30 Series without major modifications ]

    Our upgrade will be similar to what Russians are already working on for their Su30 fleet. Only our Avionics, and EW systems will come from else where resulting in overall better performance.

    @PARIKRAMA
     
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  8. lca-fan

    lca-fan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    here read this for more info:

    United Engine Corporation CEO Alexander Artyuhov said that Russian Sukhoi Su-30MKI operated by the Indian Air Force after modernization will get the AL-41F turbofan engines designed for 4++ generation aircraft currently being installed on the Su-35 fighters.


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    © FLICKR/ BIKASH DAS
    Russia, India Preparing Contract to Modernize Su-30MKI Jets - Military Cooperation Service
    BENGALURU (Sputnik) – Russian Sukhoi Su-30MKI operated by the Indian Air Force after modernization will get the AL-41F turbofan engines designed for 4++ generation aircraft currently being installed on the Su-35 fighters, United Engine Corporation CEO Alexander Artyuhov said Wednesday.


    "Speaking of the modernization of the Su-30MKI aircraft in terms of the engine, we have developed the engine AL-41F1C, it is being installed on the Su-35. This engine is exhibited at our stand and can be used for the Su-30MKI," Artyuhov said during press conference at Aero India 2017.

    He added that the engine was significantly superior than its predecessors.

    The Sukhoi Su-30MKI super-maneuverable fighter jet is a version of the Su-30MK developed for India by Russia's Sukhoi Aviation Corporation. The Indian Air Force has a fleet of over 200 Russia-designed aircraft built under license by India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

    The 11th edition of the Aero India exhibition will be held until 18 February. The expo is attended by over 750 companies from India and around the world.

    Never miss a story again — sign up to our Telegram channel and we'll keep you up to speed!

    https://sputniknews.com/asia/201702151050696296-india-russia-su-30mki/
     
  9. lca-fan

    lca-fan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    AL-41F1S (117S)[9] Advanced derivative for the Su-35 UMPO 2010 142 kN (31,900 lbf) Yes Su-35 In service/production
    AL-41F1 (117) Advanced derivative for the Sukhoi PAK FA UMPO 2010 147 kN (33,000 lbf) Yes PAK FA prototype In service/early production

    from wikipedia
     
  10. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    Sputnik, just days before posted that Pakistan is looking for S400.

    The chief of UMPO will always try to get a new contract.

    Further if his talks are true , we will see Russian S30SMs too getting the AL41 , also the Su27s. And development of AL31F M2 stop.

    Just tell me , why would you modify the whole structure of a flying machine to fit a more powerful engine, when the same power will come from another engine which would not need modifying the whole airframe ?
     
  11. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    The same page also says a bit about AL31 FM2.
     
  12. lca-fan

    lca-fan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    It is basically the same engine family and so no structural changes are required to change AL31 of Su 30 mki to S117. In fact S117 weighs around 1500 kgs, that is 300-350kgs less than AL31 which weighs 1850kgs.
     
  13. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    Same Engine Family :- Yes because the base of AL41 is from AL31.

    But if what you are telling about " same structure and only less weight " then explain me, why Russians spent money upgrading AL31FP to AL31F M1 with just 135kn , and not used the lighter and more powerful AL41 for Su27 MLU which is happening right now ?

    And why are they yet again spending money on AL31 FM2 , for Su30 SM MLU program and not simply using the AL41 ?
     
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  14. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    HAL deals with Saturn. UMPO is the manufacturer.
     
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  15. sri

    sri IDF NewBie

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    Back to topic, can any pl give some indication to the number of t/r modules for 2052 installed in jaguar, last I heard was 300 t/r for export variant of 2052.
     

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