Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

France and Germany Plan New 5th Generation Fighter, is it an Opportunity for India?

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by lca-fan, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,404
    Likes Received:
    957
    Country Flag:
    Afghanistan
    A couple years ago, visiting the Dassault factory in Merignac, the head of the French procurement agency (DGA) exclaimed that Airbus folks should get in there to learn how it's done (src). From the French perspective:
    - the Rafale program was a success
    - the nEUROn program was a success
    - the EF Typhoon program was a failure
    - the A400M program was a failure

    So if France gets to lead the Franco-German air combat system project, the only logical outcome is that Dassault will be the lead integrator on that project. It has shown it could successfully integrate various other European companies (including Saab, Airbus, and Alenia) in a multinational project (nEUROn) without getting bogged down in counter-productive workshare arrangements like Airbus has a long history of doing.

    In fact the thing that would make the most sense to me would be for France to integrate the Franco-British FCAS with the Franco-German FCAS, instead of duplicating efforts fruitlessly. That would result in the lowest development cost and the highest interoperability.
     
  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    2,685
    And you once again react emotional, instead of understanding the matter!
    We live in times where false news are spread pretty fast and in this case, I gave you a proper translation of what the German article really says! Only because someone on the key forum misinterpreted the translation, doesn't change the content of the article!
     
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    10,058
    Likes Received:
    5,068
    Aren't they both the same?
     
  4. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,880
    Likes Received:
    5,645
    Country Flag:
    France
    Is there a bias in my translation?
    I think there was not such a bias, so why do you need to say that it will be Airbus France which would lead the project?
    Does this was in the original article?
    I think no. And if France give money for this project it will be to France to choose who will participate and for me Airbus France will have zero participation in this project. But I didn't say that , I just translate the original article. Yes Dassault was not mentionned a lot, but Airbus France was not mentionned at all. And in Airbus military and Space the military part in France was completly destroyed by the German management. I know it, my last paid job was in this company.
     
  5. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    2,685
    Where did I say that? I specifically mentioned, that there is a confusion because someone in the key forum stated that.

    Because as explained, this is an Airbus project from the start and Airbus and as we know from the joint statement of Merkel and Macron, the joint development is based on the same manned / unmanned concept that Airbus Germany and Spain developed. So with Macrons statement, it's already clear that all Airbus parts will participate including the French one, just as they all are in the Talarion project too. The only questions that are left, are which other nations and companies will join this Airbus project?
     
  6. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,880
    Likes Received:
    5,645
    Country Flag:
    France
    :facepalm::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EADS_Talarion
    So now if you invest in some power point presentation you get the lead of a 40 billions programme?
    And during the time the French and German will elaborate the roadmap until mid 2018 Airbus will continue "its project" without a roadmap?
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  7. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,404
    Likes Received:
    957
    Country Flag:
    Afghanistan
    No. For a start, the FB-FCAS is already defined with funding already allocated for the construction of a pair of tech demonstrators; the FG-FCAS is at the level of a memorandum of understanding that basically says "we're going to do something together, and we're giving ourselves until 2018 to define what exactly".

    The French part of Airbus participated in the nEUROn program. If the FG-FCAS is managed correctly, they'll have about the same role, no more.
     
    randomradio likes this.
  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    2,685
    Not only the French part, but also the Spanish part and Saab too. That's why I said earlier, that it would be logical to use it as the base for FCAS and then move on to the fighter development, but the question is, if the countries want a flying wing design or prefer an unmanned fighter design:

    http://indiandefence.com/threads/fr...pportunity-for-india.62612/page-3#post-578694

    The current proposal of Airbus Germany and Spain as well as Saabs concepts, seem to aim on 1 fighter design as a platform for manned and unmanned versions, which increases commonality of course, but might have operational limitations. That however is a matter of negotiation for the partner countries.
     
  9. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    861
    So.the fight which happens between Germany & France over eft and rafales

    Will be repeated on this too
     
  10. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,880
    Likes Received:
    5,645
    Country Flag:
    France
    @Sancho , I didn't say that the French part of Airbus participated in the nEUROn program, on the contrary I'm sure it didn't, because it doen't exist now.
     
  11. Anish

    Anish BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,791
    Likes Received:
    1,690
    Country Flag:
    India
    When the Europeans develop this aircraft it will become the AMCA of India.
     

Share This Page