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France and Germany to Develop New European 5th Generation Fighter Jet

Discussion in 'Europe & Russia' started by Vergennes, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    it has very small positive stability and that can be handled by its V-tails.
     
  2. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    BON PLAN likes this.
  3. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Bet the final version has a tail.
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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  5. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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  6. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    Sancho likes this.
  7. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Yes, just as the MKI, which means it has an improved canard design than Flankers.
    Similarly, the Airbus fighter would be an improved delta canard design.

    Implementing the LEVCONS in the wing roots, seems to be the better option to reduce the RCS and still remain the benefits of canards.
     
  9. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I don't see the French agreeing with the Germans enough to produce a plane.
     
  10. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I agree.
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That depends on which French we are talking. Macron is pro EU defence and needs joint funding of such projects too, not to mention that the export potential of that fighter in the EU alone, makes it far more worth it for Thales or Safran to participate, than on a Dassault specific project. So the benefit for France is more than evident, the only problem is Dassault!

    Also keep in mind that France has the same share in Airbus as Germany and that same partners are also developing the new MALE UAV for the EU, which alone will be a major project and easily could lead into the unmanned part of the fighter project too.

    It's all there, they only need the funding and gather more partners Saab, Leonardo, hopefully even Dassault).
     
  12. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    But France will want a naval version, Germany won't want to fund it... They will argue over whose engine is best... Who does the EW... Verhofstadt will flap his wig a lot...
     
  13. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    For such project money doesn't matter benefit has to be on sovereignty.

    As for the projects in cooperation, if we take the example of the eurofighter and the Rafale, the program Rafale has cost less to France that the program Eurofighter cost to the United Kingdom and the number of export that France must produce is much higher than the number of exports that the United Kingdom has to produce. So French companies prefer the Franco-French approach to the approach in cooperation with Germany.

    For such cooperation to be successful, the sharing of tasks should be based on skills and not on the number of planes ordered.
     
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  14. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant IDF NewBie

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    For example, why were there 4 assembly lines for the typhoon.

    2/4 are going to get shut down next year.
     
  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That ship has sailed, France is pushing hard into the EU, you just don't want to see it. Airbus in the aviation field, the coop with Italy for the naval field. KMW / Nexter for armoured vehicles...
    Not to mention that we see how money matters on the Rafale and then lack of funding for upgrades.


    Doubtful, the Rafale experience already showed the limitations of "Dassault" to make exports, even against the European competition. If Airbus pushes ahead with French government support, Thales and Safran will follow.

    That's why I hope Saab joins in too, with the 2 biggest EU aviation companies teamed up, the project has a lot of scope.
    For Dassault it's a join or die situation, they already messed up and bet on UK and BAE. Not to mention that Dassault only plays a role in France, not in the EU (no exports for Rafale, only Greece with Mirage 2000). If they for once play it smart, they could have a share of the cake, otherwise the future looks bad against the EU industry on the one side and the US on the other.
     

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