Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Future of Indian Navy : A complete compilation

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Gessler, Aug 31, 2014.

  1. Freyja

    Freyja REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    60
    Country Flag:
    Norway
    That's great and all except it doesn't exist.

    "This missile has been in development since 2001" - it's almost 2017 and what's there to show for 16 years in between? JSM, NSM, VL-NSM and SL-NSM but no HSM.

    Also HSM would be about the same size as Exocet, so unless you're planning to be flying Puma or Sea King in the near future, you might be wanting a bigger helicopter because S-70B wont be able to carry it. it's too big.

    [​IMG]
     
    R!CK, Abingdonboy and Gessler like this.
  2. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,581
    Likes Received:
    4,811
    Country Flag:
    India
    As of today 2 additional P15B are sure. When the 3rd hull is launched and work on 4 ongoing, we should get official confirmation for this.

    After this things are wide open.

    Some years back there was a proposal to buy the incomplete Salva cruiser lying in 61 Komunards. Its still lying there , few millions and it should be ours. Its 94% complete. We can negotiate the blue prints too.
     
    Abingdonboy likes this.
  3. HariPrasad

    HariPrasad Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    568
    Country Flag:
    India
    new destroyer must have 200 KM range Ex sam, Hypersonic brahmos and agies class type defense system along with all electronic systems and sensor. It must have decoys against submarine attack and ship attack.
     
  4. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,578
    Likes Received:
    4,870
    Country Flag:
    India
    My next gen wishlist:
    • Propulsion : Integrated electric propulsion which is now used on Type 45 and Zumwalt class destroyers.
    • I-Mast with GaN AESA radar.
    • UVLS : I never understood the reason for IN not going for universal VLS design. Now even Russians and chinese are doing it. It will give you unparallel flexibility. You can choose Missiles based on the mission profile
    • Point defence : Maitri SR SAM or DRDO SRSAM in quardpack per cell configuration. (We will not be going for SeaRAM because we already have these two projects for the role. Unless of course KALI is ready @Gessler )
    • Missiles: 48 * MR/LR SAMS (Barak 8 + next gen LR SAM) + 8*4 Maitri/DRDO SRSAM + 16-32 Mix of Brahmos 2/1/nirbhay/Sub sonic AShm = 72-88 UVL cells and 96-112 missiles. (This will require 8000+ tonnage like Sejong the Great-class destroyers )
    • ASW : DRDO ALTAS + HUMSA NG + Varunastra torpidos
    • Aviation : Capabilities to handle two 12-13 ton helicopters + Fire Scout / BlackJack like UAVs
    • Increased automation.

    last 15B is scheduled to deliver by 2024.

    No more russian junk especially on surface fleet.
     
    R!CK, Abingdonboy and HariPrasad like this.
  5. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,438
    Likes Received:
    8,547
    Country Flag:
    India
    We do have the Airbus H225M (EC725 Caracal) in sights as the Coast Guard already ordered them. But speaking of the missile, it's sad to hear there is little to no progress on the HSM - it would have filled a very niche role alongside the likes of Sea Venom.
     
    R!CK and Abingdonboy like this.
  6. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,578
    Likes Received:
    4,870
    Country Flag:
    India
    Selected not ordered.
     
    R!CK and Gessler like this.
  7. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,438
    Likes Received:
    8,547
    Country Flag:
    India
    Point taken.

    I was under the impression that the P-15B hull is already good & flexible enough to be used for any <10,000-ton destroyer design. Further refinement is possible.

    [​IMG]

    Look at the Type-055 DDG, the tech & superstructure has evolved but the hull itself is not that different from the Type-052D (except that it's up-scaled).

    [​IMG]

    I'm all in for a completely new hull model designed from the ground up. My only worry is that it might upset the timelines somewhat...shouldn't go for a new design unless absolutely necessary (IMO it won't be).
     
    R!CK, Abingdonboy and Pundrick like this.
  8. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,581
    Likes Received:
    4,811
    Country Flag:
    India
    Barak 8/ER won't be enough. We need a ship based ABM capability too.
    Either Naval S400 or ABM Aster or SM3/6 series.
     
  9. Pundrick

    Pundrick Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    858
    Country Flag:
    India
    The whole Zumwalt project should be studied, the design does looks more stealthy and no I am not suggesting to study because it is American but because it is a generation ahead and has set a target for others.

    Automation is future at the moment, we cannot allow people to carry out job like, to carry small rockets, manually reporting friendly or enemy smaller ships or to manually interpret data from different platforms. All this has more chances of committing error and navy should go for automation and have an integrated system.
     
    Abingdonboy likes this.
  10. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    486
    Country Flag:
    India
    Do you think that US will sell SM3/6 system to us? And who apart from US has developed a naval BMD/ASAT system?
     
  11. R!CK

    R!CK 2nd Lieutant Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    1,094
    Country Flag:
    India
    Next class of Destroyers will retain the same hull model albeit some refinements. Don't expect a new hull for the next class of destroyers.

    Good Day!
     
    Abingdonboy and Gessler like this.
  12. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,438
    Likes Received:
    8,547
    Country Flag:
    India
    First of all, no one from IN has even hinted at anything like a Ship-based BMD. So we're all pretty much throwing stones in the dark here as far as BMD is concerned.

    If we have to procure the Standard Missile series, we have to procure AEGIS CMS. This will be a total shift from the currently standardized EMDINA CMSystem (centered around the MF-STAR & Barak-8), unless we can come up with some creative integration options, allowing the MF-STAR/other assets to make full use of the SM-3/6's capabilities. Too many variables and it's all gonna cost entirely too much to integrate. Rather we just develop a ship-based version of the AD-1/AD-2 missiles.

    UK/France are developing the Aster Block-II which has a limited BMD capability. The Aster round itself has nowhere near the level of kinematic performance, range or apogee to rival the SM series (it compares with our endo-atmospheric AAD, a league below the exo-atmospheric PAD/PDV).

    And ofcourse there's Russia's S-300 used on their cruisers which can also manage a BMD role against short/medium-range ballistic missiles.

    If you want full-spectrum theatre level BMD, the Aegis system with SM-series is the only ship-based system available out there. However there are 2 questions that remain to be answered -

    1) Do we need a ship-based BMD?
    2) What can we develop in-house that can go with existing/planned systems without need for a total shift?
     
  13. R!CK

    R!CK 2nd Lieutant Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    1,094
    Country Flag:
    India
    Its in the IN wishlist honestly, but like you rightly mentioned, there are challenges. Foreign partnership may be sought and I'd expect it to be either Israel or Russia. I personally don't think we need full spectrum level capability, something akin to s-300/400 type works for us I guess? Russians had introduced the Naval S-300 in early 80's, so we are only doing catch-up.

    Good Day!
     
  14. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    486
    Country Flag:
    India
    @Gessler I agree with you here but do you think AD series will make it to ship based system... Its nowhere in even talks, its IIR seeker is nowhere in sight, LRTR with 1600km range is not made yet....... we haven't modify our own Arudhra MPR for Naval version :hmm:
     
  15. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,438
    Likes Received:
    8,547
    Country Flag:
    India
    Not sure about anything yet. With the S-400 being ordered, defense against TBMs has been partially/fully taken over by this type. Induction of 77N6/77N6N-1 rounds in the future (meant for S-500) will offer the ability to take on Chinese IRBM/ICBM-class missiles. If that happens, AD-1/AD-2 will largely lose their relevance. Much depends on how quickly and properly the agencies can deliver on the missiles+supporting network.

    Want me to make a guess? Prepare to be disappointed. We will be inducting the full spectrum of Russian S-400/500 or the US THAAD system and DODO will still be prototype-testing their shyt.

    Developing AD-1/AD-2 specifically for naval applications is not viable. In which case, sea-based BMD will be only available through joint-venture projects with Russia/US/Israel.

    ++

    On topic -

    Looking at the MF-STAR installations on the Sa'ar-5 corvette somewhat reassures me. It is indeed as flexible as the SPY-series as far as placement of arrays is concerned (similar setup will be seen on Vikrant IAC-1).

    [​IMG]

    While this is not a big deal in itself, a more interesting thing to witness would be if the MF-STAR and the SMART-L were to be mated on an integrated mast. Some literature that might prove useful for the reader:

    https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/innovation/integrated-mast

    About the I-Mast 500 ...
    http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...grated-mast-i-mast-500-at-euronaval-2014.html

    If we want to conduct a limited BMD/Area-defense against the likes of DF-21D, we'd need an Aster Block-2 analogue which needs to have something like the SMART-L EWC. Note that they said it can be linked with a SMART-L. Not integrated - Add to that the fact that I've so far haven't seen any I-Mast offering with an actual separately-available VSR in the mix. Lemme know if you all did.

    Although it'll be a considerable improvement over current systems-layout and brings some advantages in the field of stealth, easy of maintenance etc., I have my doubts on the feasibility of the whole MFSTAR+SMART-L Integrated Mast thing. MoD/IN better start working on this right away before something happens and IAI or Thales (or both) end up getting blacklisted. First step toward that would be actually selecting which AESA VSR to use for future IN warships.

    All this is of course IF the Navy wants to go ahead with the integrated mast concepts.

    What do you all think, gents?
    @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @vstol jockey @randomradio @R!CK @MilSpec
     
    Aqwoyk, R!CK and randomradio like this.

Share This Page