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Future of The Indian Navy: News & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Gessler, Aug 31, 2014.

  1. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Here we go again, 60 sqd air force now 6 CBG!!? For what invade europe?
    300 million living in poverty. But dreaming of a la la land. I'm interested in things in our lifetime.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  2. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    There is no reason why we couldn't increase numbers in the next batch. What is the optimal thing to do. A highly capable mix of P15C and P17B can be churn out from MDL and GRSE simultaneously.
     
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    :lol:

    So are you saying after we get our 3rd carrier we will stop building a navy?

    Navies are built over decades, not years. By the time these plans are implemented from paper to shipyard, we will have eradicated poverty. By the time we get the 3rd carrier itself, we will have taken care of poverty.

    The Chinese RMA is set to finish in 2048. Meaning, according to the Chinese, they can go to war after 2048 against any adversary and win. That's their plan. And they probably plan on operating 12 carriers or more.

    Good luck taking on 12 supercarriers with 3 dinky air defence ships.
     
  4. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    Lol bro. So you're saying tonnage of destroyers is directly proportional to national ambitions?

    It's not about what who we plan to invade in next 20 years...it's about the tactical requirements as outlined by the IN i.e. how many SAMs needed to effectively defend CBG, how many LACMs needed to effectively carry out saturating cruise missile strikes from sea. The requirements, capabilities & systems are chalked out first - estimated tonnage is a result of all that.

    No one decides on tonnage first and then thinks about what to put on it. If Vice Adm. Deshpande said IN wants a 13,000T destroyer it's because they've already figured out all the systems & capabilities they need from this NGD and estimated that a ship capable of meeting these requirements will displace that much.

    What global ambitions does Korea have? A puny country like ROK has a destroyer much bigger than anything India has.....and they commissioned it almost 10 years ago!

    You're saying India won't have by 2030 what ROK had by 2008?
     
  5. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    There is actually a possibility that IN will be getting P-18s and something like a P-15C simultaneously.

    But for this to happen, it's necessary for large private sector shipyards to come to fore and get contracts. We can't rely on MDL and GRSE for main surface combatants forever.
     
  6. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Plus one would need to freeze the requirements for all the systems n equipment - MUCH in ADVANCE to keep pace with the build

    sorry but this phase of procurement is way too slow with no decision makers ready to take the lead
     
    snehil aditya and Gessler like this.
  7. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    What i meant is the soviet line of thinking. They should have been investing in Kirov class of ships for their size by now.
     
  8. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    Russia is having to prioritize a lot - they've put submarines before surface ships. That's why we saw new Borei and Yasen-class boats emerging. More are to come.

    Lider-class will happen once money for it is sanctioned. But you can't deny the requirement is there for very large (and tall) DDGs.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Ah. Simple to answer my friend.

    I been part of a company that makes some of the gems of Indian Techincal know how. Used to be. Now left. Been part of this private public engineering long enough to see the gormant and babus work.

    Processes. It all comes down to that. Money can be saved or wasted on how good the process is. Talent can be retained or lost on how process is done.

    Time and cost.

    China works because of vertical integration. Imagine a conveyor belt. Raw materials go in one end and a product comes out from the other end. Timing is of very importance. You cannot have multi million dollar equipment waiting for assembly. Even for a day or a week. Vendors don’t get paid on item delivery most cases, they get paid on a cycle. Or unless they negotiated it upfront. Government contratcs won’t work on pay now delivery later mode. So everything needs to be in sync.

    How do you perfect this? By doing this again and again. Find faults. And update the process. If you do it once, how do you perfect it?

    Skill.

    Ignore sarkaari jaab for life scums. They are not the data points you need to look for. Look for technical staff. Engineers, designers, machinists, cad drawers, electrical enginers etc. Once you make a rocket, you gain skills. If you don’t get to do it again, they leave. Seen thousands who does that.

    Resource allocation.

    I would put the low grade workers here. Wiring, plumbing, painters, welders etc. they are hired in certain numbers. Mostly on contract. If contract ends, they are let go. They move to better pastures. Steady work is needed. And also the ship yard capacity. India has abysmal capacity. That’s why the 10 launches per boat. Idiotic. What about the machining and fitting done for the 1 boat? You want them to throw it away? Do you know how expensive that is?

    Vendors.

    No one would setup a business to do one time supply. There are people who does that. It’s called a traveling circus. You need repeat orders to break even. If you have to break all your machines and fitting like the PSU yards, you will go broke.

    Ex: Poovar yard is been in drawing board for years.
     
  10. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Well what you say is the same for any manufacturing business.

    Sad to say that we lack the foresight and decisive decision making
     
  11. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    This
    [​IMG]

    Reminds me of this .

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Bloom 17

    Bloom 17 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    What is RMA?

    And what is the status or pump jet technology for the subs? Are any of the ssn's getting in?
    @Gessler
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Revolution in Military Affairs.

    It refers to technologies that may change the way we conduct warfare.

    We started off with sticks and stones.
    Then we moved on to bow and arrow, followed by single shot rifles. We started using formations.
    Then we got machine guns. So you can no longer stand in formation anymore, we had to dig trenches.
    Then we got tanks, tanks could go over trenches.
    Then we got aircraft that could destroy the tanks.
    Then we networked all our standalone systems and made it all more efficient.
    Then this will be followed by unmanned systems.

    So each time we changed the way we fought wars.

    Today we are all following the RMA defined by the US. Tomorrow, it could be China. At least that's what they are aiming at.
     
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  14. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    From PKSG:-

    Also, I'd asked about the P18 displacing 13,000T:-

    To which the answer was:
    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3545138702780178046&postID=4141263385257268942

    I've also reached out to @SHIV AROOR / Livefist to get his views about this statement. Let's see what he has to say. Have asked Sandeep Unnithan as well.
     
  15. GSLV Mk III

    GSLV Mk III Captain FULL MEMBER

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    A slight correction, he is talking about the old cruisers, Mysore & Delhi. Not the Delhi class destroyers of today.
     
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