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General News, Questions And Discussions : Indian Navy

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Ankit Kumar 001, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    For the record:

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/More-submarines-needed-Parrikar/article16674999.ece
     
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  2. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    It will be 7-8 yrs by the time the first P75i is rolled out. Hence we need to order more Scorpenes with or without AIP. DCNS is already begging the IN/GOI for follow up orders. Hope common sense prevails and we order more of the same to make up numbers. :frust::frust:
     
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  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Yes, there will be no imported subs after P-75I. But P-75 has 3 subs for follow-on, we are negotiating for 3 more Scorpenes right now. And P-75I will also have follow ons.

    After P-75I, it's going into post 2030, but I'm not talking about post 2030 period because the submarine building plan authorized to date is only for 24 subs before 2030.

    Your numbers for 24-30 subs is impossible before 2030.
     
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That's the best we can do by 2030. What we do after 2030 is highly subjective.
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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  6. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    Wasn't that the whole point. :dude: Numbers have to increase.


    As usual you are assuming things. P-75I is in RFI stage and you are talking about follow-on?. All order after 15 (P75+ P75 follow on+P75I) will be indian design. Thats what MP said.

    MDL have capability to fabricate two hulls at the same time + New SP shipyard building P75I can easily reach 24 by 2030. MDL has already showed delivery capability every 9 months.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
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  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    At best MDL will get the follow on for 3 more Scorpenes, but that will end it for them. The private industry will get the P-75I.

    As for the private industry, they will be lucky to manage 6 by 2030 simply because it's going to take time for us to sign on the dotted line and build the capability from scratch. Not to mention, even the SSN is going to take time.

    Any indigenous SSK will take longer than 2030. So if you are talking about any new submarines beyond 24, then no plan exists for that. Hell, we can build 24 SSKs after 2030, split between MDL and SP, and ask them to deliver all 24 by 2035, followed by 24 more by 2040, but we need to make the plan first. And this plan will also be a 30 year plan.
     
  8. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    It would be sheer insanity to throw away the capacity MDL has now built up by ordering just 3 more P-75 from them. MDL now has 2 submarine production lines with the capacity to churn out Scorpenes 1 every 9 months (after an intial 3-4 year build phase), massive investment has gone into MDL with immense expertise being built up. More fool India if it elects to simply spit on its own investments and ignore all the hard work that went into creating the capacity in the first place.
     
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    MDL's capability will not be lost. But SP will get higher priority now.

    Anyway, submarine construction is not a 9 month process, the 3 new Scorpenes won't be delivered that quickly. By then they will start plans for production of indigenous SSKs.

    And MDL is not producing 2 Scorpenes at once, they have only 1 production line. You can ask @vstol jockey. He confirmed the same to me long ago.
     
  10. Shekhar Singh

    Shekhar Singh 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Does Chinese have missile defense system like Barak 8 on their ships, if yes how good is it compared to Barak?
     
  11. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Really?

    The newly built Submarine Marine Assembly Workshop is a pre-engineered building structure to handle construction of multiple submarines simultaneously. Built at a cost of Rs153 crore, it will make it possible to assemble five submarines in the workshop at the same time


    --------------------

    This facility will enable MDL to go in for a second line of submarines concurrently.




    http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/repo...ubmarine-assembly-workshop-in-mazgaon-2217627
     
  12. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Unlike a ship, a submarine is built in a different manner. It is floated out nearly ready for sailing. Ships are floated out with just about 40% work done. In a sub assemblyline, the various plugs of the sub are built separately and than joined together. How rapidly you can build those plugs, decides the time taken to complete a sub. What you have not noticed is that they have created more space for pre-engineered building structure to handle construction of multiple submarines simultaneously.
    this means that you can start making two plugs of same kind to feed two assemblylines but it does not mean that you have two assemblylines. To set up a second assemblyline, you will need much larger funds outgo.
     
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  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Yeah, but the assembly isn't happening in parallel.

    And as the article mentions, the facility can be expanded to handle a second line. Not that the second line is already operational. There is only one line and only that line is chugging out submarines.

    My previous post:
    Hell, we can build 24 SSKs after 2030, split between MDL and SP, and ask them to deliver all 24 by 2035, followed by 24 more by 2040, but we need to make the plan first. And this plan will also be a 30 year plan.

    Don't get carried away by what companies say. We may have the capacity, but that capacity can be utilized only if there are more orders. For example, LM has the capacity to deliver 250 F-35s, but that's not going to happen without orders. Similarly, HVF has developed capacity to manufacture 150 T-90s a year, that doesn't mean they are manufacturing at that rate.
     
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  14. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    [​IMG]

    After a major delay, Indian Navy is all set to take the delivery of world’s stealthiest, deadly fighting tool, the INS Kalvari, a submarine named after the king of the ocean tiger shark.
    The commissioning of the Scorpene class submarine is going to be a milestone for India’s underwater forces. However, on the hand, China’s underwater fleet comprises of nearly 60 submarines as compared to India’s 15 and increases its incursion into the Indian Ocean in what New Delhi strategists see as a national security challenge.
    A Chinese Yuan-class diesel-powered submarine entered the Indian ocean in May and is still lurking stated Economic Times quoting Indian naval officer. It’s an unsolicited reminder from Chinese naval forces during the times when Indian and Chinese soldiers are engaged in a border dispute stand-off at Doklam.
    Although, India is slowly upgrading its underwater fleet.
    The INS Kalvari is the first of six French-made Scorpene submarines on order in a 236 billion rupee ($3.7 billion) project awarded in 2005 to the state-owned defence shipyard Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd. and France’s Naval Group, formerly known as DCNS Group. Junior defence minister Subhash Bhamre said in July that the first of these would be delivered in August.
    The French-made INS Kalvari is the first of six Scorpene submarines on order in a 236 billion rupee ($3.7 billion) project awarded in 2005 to the defence shipyard Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders. The first of these would be delivered in August, said Economic Times quoting Junior defence minister Subhash Bhamre.
    In February 2015, India also approved the construction of six-nuclear powered submarines. Only a few details have been released about this 600 million rupee project.
    In addition to that, on July 21, India initiated another program to build six more diesel submarines. For which, India sent requests to six manufacturers -- Germany's ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems GmbH, Naval Group of France, Madrid-based Navantia SA, Sweden's Saab AB, a Russia-Italian joint venture called Russian Rubin Design Bureau and a consortium between Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. and Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd. The project is going to be nearly worth 500 billion rupees.
    Even with all the announced programs, reportedly, India isn't likely to meet it's 2030 deadline for shoring up its submarine fleet. To tackle foreign threats, planners reckon the underwater fleet needs at least 18 diesel, six nuclear and four nuclear-armed submarines.

    http://www.timesnownews.com/india/a...ia’s-naval-quotient-amidst-china-threat/69087
     
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  15. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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