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Grievance

Discussion in 'IDF Management' started by Proxy1234, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Hence my post above. Your posts which resulted in infractions were shocking for me too. I have other impression of you, honestly was surprised at posts unlike you.

    May I suggest that we concentrate on your core expertise - to analyse an issue and discuss it on merits/demerits and do away with rants of little value?

    I am sure you shall agree that there is that feeling of being happy taken as smug, when you turn out right. Why not enjoy those moments?? I certainly do.

    I look forward to better and more enlighting posts from you henceforth and sincerely hope that you will provide us with constructive and valuable insights as is usual.

    Lets move forward now ....
     
    Anish likes this.
  2. Golden_Rule

    Golden_Rule Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    LOL ;)
     
  3. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Very wise words indeed. I hope you recall he may also have mentioned never to lie/fib/concoct facts and to accept with humility where you may have erred or may not have the correct information.

    May I now remind you of what happened? It remains a very interesting sequence of events:


    1.png

    Of course I intervened:

    2.png

    An attempt at encouraging you to give a detailed response as interacting with you for the first time as also allowing you space to carry out the necessary corrections of the ratio of kills you have claimed for F-15s in this war.

    3.png


    and

    4.png

    The above, on your statement over FGFA being poorer to F-35.

    5.png

    was still waiting for you to let us know 'new facts' over kill ratio of F-15s in the Lebanon Air war.

    6.png


    Apparently if someone does not know something it does not mean it never happened. True that .... yet you never sourced your information, thereby denying me a chance to educate myself.

    7.png


    Still asked you to source your claim of kills.

    Then, of course, I had to source my information which I did:

    link: http://indiandefence.com/threads/sukhoi-su-57-pak-fa-5th-generation-aircraft.851/page-295



    Now, where were we?

    Ah, yes ..... when respected Dadaji taught you a very good lession." If a person thinks that he is only one who knows everything and rest are the stupids then you should understand that only he is fool among all"., he did not mean it to remain as a a lesson to be read and verbalised. He also meant for it to be implemented in a way of life.

    You are right. I was not aware of F15s achieving the kill ratio of 100:0 in the Lebanon War Air Campaign. No one in the world is aware of this fact. Only you, my dear sir, are the enlightened in the almost 8 Billion so called Human Beings on this planet!

    Now apply your own lessons on yourself ... you will be surprised as to what you will come to know of the situation at present.

    Indeed, Rahul Gandhi is an analogy that was foremost in your thoughts :D


    Please feel free to show your knowledge and intellect prowess more often. I look forward to learning from you.

    And by the ways, I am still learning. And my credentials are verified credentials to few here, who know that I only comment on things on which I know the topic or have access to information which may be considered genuine ... that includes, unfortunately, air force and flying too.

    However, I still rely on excellent members like @Abingdonboy @randomradio @ankit_kumar001 @nair @PARIKRAMA and @vstol jockey to give out information which I am not aware of/sure of/ understand.

    :)

    PS: Do not delete this post. I want this member to understand that we are all here to learn, not get personal. His personalised innuendos needed a reminder why there is a moderation team in place, to encourage discourse even when the information being posted is wrong.
     

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  4. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Operation Mole Cricket 19
    Part of the 1982 Lebanon War
    [​IMG]
    Part of a Syrian SA-6 site built near the Beirut-Damascus highway, and overlooking the Beqaa Valley, in early 1982.
    Date June 9, 1982
    Location Beqaa Valley, Lebanon
    Result Decisive Israeli victory
    Belligerents
    [​IMG] Israel [​IMG] Syria
    Commanders and leaders
    [​IMG] David Ivry
    [​IMG] Ariel Sharon [​IMG] Mustafa Tlass
    [​IMG] Hafez Al-Assad
    Strength
    ≈90 fighter aircraft (mostly F-15s and F-16s)[1]
    1 remotely piloted vehiclessquadron[2]
    UAVs ≈100 fighter aircraft (mostly ground attack MiG-21 and MiG-23, some MiG-23M air-to-air fighters)[1]
    30 SAM batteries[3]
    Casualties and losses
    Two F-15 damaged
    [4]
    At least one UAV shot down[5] 82-86 planes shot down
    29 SAM batteries destroyed

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mole_Cricket_19
     
  5. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    This is known. I was very specific about 100 kills for F-15s. Facts are something that can not be allowed to get distorted. If the facts are there, listed in public domain, then they need to be accurate. This is the first step - the distortion of facts, to skew the information and tailor it to meet a specific narrative. The only agenda I have here in this forum while shifting from the other forum is to ensure that a balanced field is maintained and tinted information and news is not propagated.

    Claiming 100 kills for only a particular type of Aircraft without the acknowledgement of accompanying platforms/conditions/enablers, is presentation of a skewed information.

    Already posted the Beqaa Campaign ... and use of RPVs and Drones to identify the SAM sites.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017 at 3:25 PM
  6. Shekhar Singh

    Shekhar Singh FULL MEMBER

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    Show me the sentence where you think it's personal or any point where I have mentioned you.
     
  7. Shekhar Singh

    Shekhar Singh FULL MEMBER

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    Thank you sir, but someone is asking for accurate figure. He can ask you for more clarity like 82 or 86. He can ask you to not use words like "atleast one uav shot down". What is atleast? Show him accurate no. I never have taken his name anywhere but he asks moderator everywhere to ban me. I want to told him that India is my country also and I too have patriotic feeling for my country. And I also want to tell him that it's not necessary to be a highly educated army officer to serve the nation. I have lost my brother in kashmir fighting with terrorists. And my less educated Lance Naik brother is more valuable for country than these chest thumping so called highly educated, good for nothing, superiority complexed officers.
    And yes I don't want to be intolerant like him so I will not reply him again.
    Dear moderator If you want me to block then do it immediately but plz let him humiliate other members who mistake to write 100 instead of 90 which is not accurate in his eyes.
     
  8. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I think this needs to be sorted out, so putting it up here.

    PS: Do not delete this post. I want this member to understand that we are all here to learn, not get personal. His personalised innuendos needed a reminder why there is a moderation team in place, to encourage discourse even when the information being posted is wrong.

    Link: http://indiandefence.com/threads/ia...d-the-closed-doors-in-new-delhi.62642/page-28

    The word "innuendo", as per Merriam-Webster

    a :an oblique allusion :hint, insinuation; especially :a veiled or equivocal reflection on character or reputation

    source:
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innuendo


    Screen Shot 2017-10-23 at 12.26.57 PM.png

    Care to explain the 'misunderstanding' on my part here? Because, as far as I can see, @PARIKRAMA was trying to prevent @Vijyes from derailing the topic by emphasising my credentials, and I, till then, was trying to prevent his hyper communal bullshit from spewing garbage all over the forum.

    You, my dear sir, have simply been an enabler to a troll, who eventually got banned, and contrary to popular notion that I ban people, I did not ban him.

    What do you think the duty of a moderator is? Is it merely to delete offensive posts? Or is it limited to enforcement of rules of a forum? Or is it, by any chance, also comprising the task of moderating the discussion in order to enable the same to be fruitful, engaging and knowledgable?

    My first post to you, where in I had specifically asked you to post sources regarding the 100:0 of Migs vs F15s as claimed by you, was an intercession, in order to moderate the discussion and to try and get you back on line where you are erring without openly taking you on.

    Had you taken the trouble to read that post, and reply to it immediately by posting sources, which would have entailed you reading the sources and realising the issue - of making a broad stroke of claims without answering the questions I posted along with my asking you to source your figures, you would have not only posted a reference for members, most of who are unaware of the Beqaa Valley Campaign, but at the same time, would have also taken the effort to correct your post, do an analysis of the impact of role of UAVs and RPVs in DEAD tasks carried out by the IAF and then also been able to emphasise the pre-eminence of the IAF aircrafts of Western Origin over Soviet Aircraft in terms of avionics and communications, thereby driving in the point you were making.

    2.png

    Notice how I am asking you to put up a comparative assessment of situation and C4I2? This was an attempt to get you engaged beyond your capability. Since it was my first time interaction with you, and I know majority of posters and their capabilities here, I was encouraging you to elaborate, as your posts till then were good. It was an attempt at trying to get you to evolve as a poster. But you went mum

    Then the sequence as posted here.

    http://indiandefence.com/threads/ia...d-the-closed-doors-in-new-delhi.62642/page-28

    But, alas, you were unable to overcome your own bloated sense of self worth. What a dumbass reply:

    3.png

    Read the first line. IF YOU DON'T KNOW SOMETHING THEN IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT NEVER HAPPENED!

    My dear friend, that is hardly a person who is here to learn. More the mark of a vain person, which, by the ways, you claim not to be. That is when I posted the Beqaa Valley Campaign, and lost any hope in you as a member who would add value here. And ignored you thereafter, till as such time, you decided to cheer on another ass the other day.

    What do you mean by this bullshit if not an intent to troll?

    4.png

    No wonder, US army has been able to carry out all political directives as decided by the US Government till date. And successfully.

    No, someone was asking you to give complete background over the issue. And not skew the information to suit your narrative. That someone also gave you hints as to what you should cater to before giving in a decisive judgement as you did.

    Think hard, you would have been a better off person doing a thorough review and would have learned something, while posting information for others and been regarded for it. Wouldn't that be a better situation?



    You can't reference that bullshit you just posted.

    Sweetie, I don't have to ask anyone to ban you, I can do that myself. But you are just too dumb to realise that what was an attempt to get you involved and improve as a poster, your fragile ego took as an affront to your fragile ego. What have you achieved in life to assume you have nothing to learn? ;Why the hell do you think did I waste my time correcting you? Am wasting my time still correcting you? Do you think your views of me would matter a rat's arse to majority of members here, who have known me long enough to know what I am doing with you here?

    Do you realise that majority of us have interacted for years on forums and know of each other pretty well, some of them have known me as a service member too?

    How is he concerned with your patriotic feeling or otherwise? How does it matter? And it is "I want to tell him..."

    No one cares a rat's arse for patriotic feeling if you do not use the brains to understand what you need to do to be a patriot. A patriot has to be by actions, not sloganeering and claims.

    You are a patriot, no one is doubting you. But as a patriot, you need to be able to carry out an intelligent and reason based argument/discussion/debate. You need to be able to look at what is best for your nation.

    Instead you acted exactly like those thousands who claim patriotism but preach hatred to fellow Indians on lines of caste, religion, language, colour. Your cheering of a member espousing hatred for fellow Indians on lines of religion render you into the exact same domain.

    My dear friend you need to take a relook at your patriotism.



    No dumb arse, your brother deserves the respects as a fellow warrior, you don't.

    You do not even have the right to claim his sacrifice, for exactly your stupid statement following it. I made sure three guys cleared ACC to become officers, majority do not want to work hard. You know nothing. So, no, you do not get to claim your brother's sacrifice for his nation.

    You are just any other self opinionated Indian bereft of knowledge in totality and refusing to learn. Your Dadaji was right .. but you failed to understand what he was conveying.


    Typical bloody Indian, no capability and crying. And not understanding!!! The figure of 100:0 in favour of F15 (ONLY F15?)

    Read this: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a192545.pdf

    So you accept it was a mistake? Was it too much of a transgression on your pride to accept a mistake then itself, at the outset? Instead of being the arrogant ignorant that you were by saying "if you don't know something then it does not mean it did not happen"? Could you not have corrected it, instead of being an ignorant ass?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017 at 1:29 PM
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