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HAL / Hindustan aeronautics limited

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Industry' started by TSUNAMI, Nov 1, 2012.

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  1. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    AFAIK the IA has an order for 75 Rudras as of now (with over 30 having been handed over to them thus far), couple this with the 260+ LCHs it is rumoured the IA are after, the 180 ALH they have and possibly the 39++ Apaches they have their eyes on (still?), this is a pretty mammoth expansion in the IA's aviation assets and capabilties in a very short span of time.

    Further down the line there is a requirement from the IA to have 150 12+ ton MRHs (IMRH), this is going to have a transformational effect on India's warfighting capabilities, it truly will be one of the most devestating militaries on earth by the time all of these assets are in place.


    The only thing that is going to detract from these capabilities is inter-service rivalry, if the IAF insists on having control of the Chinooks that will be transporting the IA's MSC and its integral arty assets (M777s) or maintaining an entirely seperate medium lift helo fleet (as seems likely given their huge orders for Mi-17 V5s) then the IA is going to be hampered.

    As such, the need to move to tri-service theatre commands could not be more pressing.
     
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  2. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Recall the aviation brigades. IAF will have helis for heli lift for SHBO and Airborne operations. IA's integral Aviation Brigade at the Corps level will have attack helis and limited transport (CasEvac) and recce & observation flights.
     
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  3. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Sounds good in theory but there is just too much duplication of efforts going on between the IA and IAF, there needs to be a clear delineation of roles. Why is the IA and IAF going for a joint buy of 600+ LUH/RSH? What does the IAF need RSH/LUH for? Why is the IAF supporting IA posts in the mountains? Why can't the IA be the sole supplier for its own installations, adding another service just complicates the matter. Why the heck is the IAF inducting Apaches? Even the Chinooks are being bought with the explicit intent of supporting the IA's MSC.

    I understand that this is simple institutional bias, the IAF at one time wanted to control everything that flew, they even tried to scuttle the IN's aviation plans decades ago. But this outdated thinking needs to be re-addressed and the IAF needs to be made to justify every aviation asset it thinks it needs, its entire helo fleet (V5s, LCH, ALH/Rudra, Apache, LUH/RSH and Chinook) can be transferred to the IA. The IAF can retain a few Rudras and V5s for SAR/CSAR but beyond that why do they need any of this mammoth fleet?
     
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  4. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    I will reply in detail after checking up on facts as available in public domain. But on broader terms, the IAF will be supporting airborne operations for Infantry Brigade sized units. We have approximately 2 divisions worth of Airborne Troops today (inclusive of Special Forces). Read this capacity with that. Also, you need to supplement air maintenance operations in fast moving and fluidic battle field. IAF's control of rotary aircrafts in this role (limited to support at the staging areas/logistics area of a moving Infantry/Armoured Division) will create less hassles of airspace control and coordination in hinterland from where the airforce's strike missions will be launched. For airspace operations ahead of it, the integrated army units will be able to provide support as and where needed.

    As for attack heli - both should have it IMO. Airforce Helis may get embarked on IN ships in amphibious support role ?
     
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  5. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    This is the most logical reply I have seen to the question of why the IAF needs to be involved in supporting IA offensive ops but even still I find it a bit unconvincing sir. With the kind of state of the art C&C infrastructure both the IA and IAF are setting up there shouldn't be huge coordination issues and if there are, the solution should be in creating more joint-service coordination (ie theatre commands), not furthering the service rivalry/incompatibility by duplicating services.

    As it stands, the IA and IAF will have near identical (in terms of size and capability) helo fleets come 2030, this just seems insane to me and isn't replicated anywhere else on earth. It just feels like a huge duplication of efforts and it is easy to argue that all such assets under IA control would be far more capable than such a fleet being split between the IA and IAF.

    LOL, this would be the ultimate tri-service effort; IAF attack helos supporting IA amphibious operations from IN ships! Why can't IN ships just embark IA attack helos for this role? Again, another case for an entirely seperate marine infantry force to be raised under the IN's command.
     
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  6. GSLV Mk III

    GSLV Mk III Captain FULL MEMBER

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    From the EOI.

    _20170502_194538.jpg

    Hence 1 for each engine will do I think.
     
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  7. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Not 1 per engine, it's actually 1 per rotor I believe (main rotor & tail rotor). Choppers have only one gearbox per rotor - no matter how many engines there are, they all transmit their power to the single MGB (for main rotor) and the TRGB (for tail rotor).

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Still I'm not 100% sure what is being implied here. It's a given that the numbers don't make sense unless it's 2 per helo. So it's plausible that we're talking about the MGB+TRGB combo. However I've looked up some info and I found out that even the MGB itself contains two distinct "gear modules" which seem to fit the description. The main module and the epicyclic module (planetary gear type) - which are both of importance for reducing rpm during transfer of power from engine to rotor (the whole point of a reduction GB).

    It appears we can be sure of only one thing - whatever it is, there will be two of it per chopper.
     
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  8. Anish

    Anish BANNED BANNED

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  9. Anish

    Anish BANNED BANNED

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  10. Anish

    Anish BANNED BANNED

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    The CAG also expressed dissatisfaction over licence production and supply of Hawk Mk 132 AJT aircraft by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

    It said not insisting for licence for manufacture of unlimited number of aircraft by the ministry of defence (MoD) while negotiating for "batch I" contract resulted in avoidable payment of licence fee for licenced manufacture of unlimited number of aircraft.

    The CAG also said HAL incurred an expenditure of Rs 107.05 crore on account of procurement of six additional engine kits in anticipation of order from MoD which remained infructuous.

    The HAL produces the plane under licence from BAE. under licence from the BAE Systems.

    "Though establishment of facilities for major servicing of airframe and engines was envisaged to be completed by March 2016 and March 2018 respectively, considering aircraft directly procured by MoD, HAL was yet to establish the facilities till date," it said.

    http://www.ptinews.com/news/8909884_CAG-slams-Navy-for-delay-in-ASW-corvettes-project.html
     
  11. Anish

    Anish BANNED BANNED

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    HAL employees to protest 'Hindi imposition' today

    The Hindustani Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Kendriya Kannada Sangha has said that it will hold a silent protest against imposition on the company employees on Wednesday.

    Ramaswamy R of the Sangha, which heads 13 different Kannada associations 8 in the HAL, said the officials in the organisation have disregarded the Centre’s three-language formula by not including Kannada.

    “We don’t want primacy for Kannada. But the local language doesn’t even get a space in the organisation and we will protest it,” he said.

    He said a booklet will be released on the occasion to drive home their anger against Hindi imposition. “We have a fine hospital. But most of the staff there don’t understand Kannada. How will we explain our health problems,” he asked.

    Ramaswamy said over a thousand employees are expected to take part in the protest.

    http://www.deccanherald.com/content/632866/hal-employees-protest-hindi-imposition.html

    1000 employees will not be working.
     
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  12. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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  13. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant IDF NewBie

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    let's see em deliver on time.
     
  14. Blackjay

    Blackjay Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    1st video.
    Time-9:14

    "First version of mk1a will fly in December"

    They didn't mention the year.So it must be this year.
    :angel:



    On a serious note,Look at that build quality.
    :yahoo:
     
  15. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Will be cut to 9 months by the end of this year.

    Actually not quite, the limitation is the orders the IAF has cgiven a firm agreement for, it doesn't make economic sense to expand production to 24/year for jsut 83 units hence HAL have capped production at 16/year but can increase this to 24/year with minimal investment on their side just more outsourcing to the private sector.

    If the GoI are serious about "Make in India" or increasing the private sector's particiaption in the defence sector they will commit to vast LCA orders instead they are content on throwing tens of billions at an outdated foreign jet that will be all but assembled abroad.....

    @PARIKRAMA @Gessler
     

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