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HAL HTFE-25 & HTSE-1200 Engines

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Industry' started by Agent_47, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    HAL's HTSE Concept.JPG
    The latest milestone in aircraft engine development that Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd unveiled, counted with its other helicopter engines project, may be two new tiny steps which, however, may be no match for the giant gap that exists for indigenous aero engines, experts in the field say.

    The projects that the premier military aircraft maker has embarked on will be respectively for small jets and trainer planes; and light helicopter projects. Engine development technology being extremely complex as it is, India is still a far cry from propelling the bigger fighter planes with its own engine. It could be a new quest 25 years after the DRDO’s Kaveri engine for Indian light fighters failed to rev up.

    HAL on December 14 trial-ran the HTFE-25 - the engine that can potentially power its basic trainer plane and perhaps business jets - in the presence of the Defence Minister. Around October this year, it initiated the design of the second one, HTSE-1200, meant for 3-tonne to 6.5-tonne helicopters.

    They stand for Hindustan Turbo Fan Engine and Hindustan Turbo Shaft Engine.

    The two projects are expected to reach fruition by around 2020-21 and would meet HAL’s upcoming projects - the HTT-40 trainer; the Light Combat Helicopter, the Light Utility Helicopter and the future ALHs (Advanced Light Helicopters), a senior official said. The ALH is now powered by the Shakti engine of HAL and its French partner Turbomeca.

    Calling the engine’s debut run a speedy achievement, Ashok Baweja, who was HAL's Chairman during 2004-09 is and now CEO of QuEST Global Defence, said, “Developing an engine is almost as challenging as making an aircraft fly. This is the beginning. The real challenge will be in extensively running [HTFE-25], quickly getting it qualified and certified, may be within two years. And once certified, it has immense [market] potential.”

    Government officials have often said various agencies would need 4,000-6,000 helicopter engines by the end of this decade. . Considering the huge requirement, Mr. Baweja said the larger HTSE-1200 being pursued for light helicopters would also be a potent product; “We have never done this 1200-kW-class engine before.”

    Comparing the HTFE-25 progress to conquering a hillock before a mountain, K. Tamilmani, DRDO's Director-General for Aeronautical R&D, said it was a desirable baby step as “we are nowhere in engines globally”.

    An engine for the fifth generation concept, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, for example, he said, could be at least a decade away and perhaps made in a partnership.

    Indigenous engine technologies, Dr. Tamilmani remarked, are essential; India, in spite of its aircraft manufacturing maturity, cannot claim self-reliance in aeronautics without its own engine.

    Future focus should be on aiming for multiple engines and pooling of diverse capabilities.

    Mr. Baweja also said the old and now stalled DRDO effort, the Kaveri GTX-35VS engine, which did not make it as intended into the LCA fighter, should also be somehow completed.

    http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...r-hals-new-aircraft-engine/article8009277.ece
     
  2. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    [​IMG]
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    For more: October | 2015 | A Quantum of Mind

    Title: Development of Medium Thrust Class Turbofan Engine – HTFE25

    by Devanathan, AERDC, HAL

    Presenter emphasizes on two points:

    • Time should be the first priority.
    • Role of SME is of paramount importance.
    Four technical aspects covered:

    • Multi-disciplinary approach for design
    • Systems Engineering Simulation/Concept
    • Digital Manufacturing
    • Testing
    • Currently (Aug-2015) manufacturing core of the engine and soon to be tested.
    • Planned concept is to develop core engine first and then develop full engine based on the platform it would be fitted to.
    • Emphasize on MD design iterations with quick iteration churning.
    • Secondary flows: First 3D simulations to capture flow characteristics and then use 1D models calibrated using the 3D simulations. 1D for unsteady simulations. Verification sing existing engine data done as a whole.
    • Idle = 70% rpm
    • 3D printing technology adapted right from concept stage. Main idea behind this was to reduce lead time to manufacture critical components in order to reduce risk of program. (Since only CAD input need to be changed to change component produced).
    • Casting to be replaced by 3D printing while forging, sheet metal processes retained.
    • Nozzle GV 3D printed with Inconel material – intricate cooling passages with additional which would not be possible with conventional techniques are easily made with 3D printing.
    • CC part- (flame tube section), Turbine blades, HPC all stator vane sectors, HPC tandem stator, gear box parts,
    Pros of 3D printing:

    • Practically zero lead time for implementing design change in manufacturing
    • Full Freedom to designer
    • Possibility of lot of weight reduction by having internal cavities at non-critical locations.
    Q: Why build 25kN engine when HAL license mfg same thrust class engines (adour-871 et al). Why not make Al-55 replacement?

    A: Initially 20kN was proposed. Since Al-55 is ~17kN, a 20kN would have been good for IJT MK2. But the higher authorities went with 25kN. Wrt adour871 advantage in technology (smaller size, PR 11 vs 20, ~600mm vs ~450mm Turbine dia – huge turbine operating at lower rpm for Adour) , weight and size. So This engine while replacing Adour would give better performance. This engine can be used for Jagaur (which has 28kN engine) as well. Just need to change mounting points (and perhaps LP module?). Its very easy to adjust the design to various thrust levels by changing materials etc. Analysis already done. With similar core 35-40kN is achievable easily. SFC for this engine 0.72, better than older engines
    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  3. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    @vstol jockey at present this engine is 25 kn and 360kg .......... at what weight it can be scaled up to 75 Kn dry thrust?
     
  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It will need a new birth for that. This engine can't be upgraded to such a thrust level, you will need a complete new engine for that.
     
  5. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    So can new prototype from scratch be made at 750-800kg weight for 75kn thrust for a new design by Hal?
    and can this htfe be upgraded to 45kn dry thrust at 450 kg for your LSA?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
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  6. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    HAL themselves has said that it is fine for 40KN dry thrust which means it can go upto 64KN wet thrust. But we need to see how weight gain will it need.
     
  7. Schwifty

    Schwifty 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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  8. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Sir what could be the all up weight of that 64kn engine?
     
  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I expect it to be below 750kgs. This estimate is based on Honeywell F125 engine upgraded to F125X standard with 56KN wet thrust. HTFE-25 is lighter by nearly 100kgs compared to Honeywell F124 engine.
     
  10. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    M88 at 50kn dry and 75kn wet is 800 kg and that engine is more than 12 years old I think............. I don't know about afterburner weight but with after burner it should not be higher than 630kg........... I know my expectations are high ...........
     
  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Finally this engine has attained full power of 25Kn and now it moves now towards 40KN.
     
  12. proud_indian

    proud_indian FULL MEMBER

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    sir,
    Can this be used on Ghatak/Aura in dual configuration?
     
  13. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I expect the uprated 35KN dry to be more than sufficient for Ghatak and Aura. nEUROn uses an even lesser thrust engine.
     
  14. proud_indian

    proud_indian FULL MEMBER

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    Yes I noticed that nEUROn and even BAE Taranis both are using 29kn engines as of now
    I asked this because AURA was supposed to use modified kaveri, thought it would require more power!
     
  15. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    They had planned to use Kaveri with low thrust setting but now with upgraded HTFE-35, even they might use this engine as it is nearly 400kgs lighter that Adour, more compact, more powerful and has much lower burn.
     

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