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HAL LUH / Ka-226: News and Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Gessler, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. lca-fan

    lca-fan Captain FULL MEMBER

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    IDN TAKE: KAMOV KA-226 - HOW DOES IT ADD TO INDIAN DEFENSE CAPABILITIES?
    SATURDAY, APRIL 08, 2017 BY INDIANDEFENSE NEWS


    [​IMG]
    by Sareth Kailas Kumaresan
    With Russian President Vladimir Putin finally giving the go ahead for setting up an Indo-Russian joint venture to produce the Kamov (Ka-226) military helicopters as per a $1 billion-dollar deal inked in 2015, the Indian military is finally set to get a reprieve from its critical helicopter shortage.
    India has ordered 200 of the Ka-226 utility helicopters, the first of which, will begin delivery in 2019. The Ka-226, unlike conventional helicopters has an interchangeable mission pod, rather than a conventional cabin, allowing many different configurations according to the mission, making it truly a utility helicopter.
    The light, twin-engine yet multi-role chopper offers flexibility for military purposes and for civilian purposes. The chopper is intended to replace the ageing fleet of Cheetah and Chetak helicopters which have recently been running into many technical snags.
    Apart from replacing and bolstering the old utility helicopter fleet, Russian Helicopters, the company which makes the Ka-226 says that the military variant can work effectively in extreme and difficult weather conditions. This will include hot climate, marine areas and mountainous terrain, making it a perfect fit for the diverse terrains of the Indian subcontinent.
    The Helicopter can also be effectively used for reconnaissance, targeting and monitoring and transportation of equipment unto 1.5 tonnes. Interchangeable and mission specific pods also mean the chopper can carry up to seven paratroopers and security personnel increasing mobility of assets and increasing the Indian militaries surgical strike capabilities.
    Kamov-226 has a top speed of 250 kmp/h and has been refined from the old and proven Ka-26 helicopter, with a refined rotor system, increased nose visibility and a new passenger cabin design. The aircraft is also made of composite materials, making it light and with a new transmission system and twin coaxial rotors, making it highly manoeuvrable. The chopper also has Medivac, disaster relief and patrol variant mission pods for the military and air ambulance, police and fire fighting variants have also been designed for civilian purposes
    With the addition of this new, reliable and proven chopper, the military is definitely set to get a boost to its operational capabilities within the next few years.

    http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/04/idn-take-kamov-ka-226-how-does-it-add.html
     
    Sancho likes this.
  2. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    If kamov is made in HAL , the LUH must be allowed to be made in private sector.. Second line to ramp up the LUH numbers.
     
  3. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Interchangeable mission pods biggest advantage of this helo's.
     
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  4. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    I like the modules idea for armored vehicles, to limit the need of many dedicated varient of the same vehicle, but in this case it's questionable imo.
    Take a GTK Boxer IFV as an example, it has mission modules for different roles too and it's base always remains the same.
    Different varients of different helicopters on the other side, have completely different requirements of sensors, avionics or capabilities.
    A SAR version of the Ka 226 for example would need a forward looking IR system, a naval version a search radar, a version that is used on a carrier or vessels might need folding rotors..., but all these things are fixed features of the helicopter base and changing the mission module won't help.
    An IA version won't have folding rotors, a naval version with a MEDIVAC mission module is useless for maritime SAR or surveillance and so on.
     
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  5. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    In addition to what I wrote above...

    Ka226 and MEDIVAC mission module:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    As we can see, the base of the helicopter has a winch and search lights added to suit the SAR role, which however not all Ka226 in IA or IAF will have, so even if you add the MEDIVAC mission module, you can't always use the helicopter in all roles, since only the internal content of the modules will change.


    ICG Dhruv in MEDIVAC misson:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Since all Dhruv's and the new HAL LUH have the rear doors, they can be used for MEDIVAC roles without changes. All they might missed, are specific medical equipment, which might not be carried all the time.
    That gives faster reaction time to such missions, just as less storage space requirements for Dhruv and LUH compared to the Ka226.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  6. The enlightened

    The enlightened 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    This makes no sense. In fact the only way to make sense of this post is to completely reverse everything you just said.
     
  7. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Sancho, Pundrick, Abingdonboy and 7 others like this.
  8. Gessler

    Gessler Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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  9. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Freaking LOVE this machine and am blown away by HAL's efforts (2 prototypes flying in less than 8 months).

    For the love of God GoI, scrap the Ka-226 deal and commit to 600+ HAL LUH for the IA anf IAF. Even when the solution is at hand these idiots have to throw a spanner into the mix.


    India............snatching defeat from the jaws of victory since 1947.
     
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  10. Guynextdoor

    Guynextdoor Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    no dude, it will take several years for LUH to be certified and inducted in large numbers. Let Ka226 come in. We will eventually induct large nos. and replace them with LUH. I don't think the production run for the entire decade will be more than 20 per year
     
  11. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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  12. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    LUH will be in production from 2019-20, HAL are targetting 30/year under phase one and 60/year under phase 2 from 2023-4 and I have no reason to doubt them, they have commited to an entirely new greenfield production facilty just for the LUH and given they are producing 25-30 ALH/year I don't see how they can't produce the aforementioned production targets for a relatively simpler machine given all the know how they have accumulated.

    The Ka-226 is going to be more expensive to procure and operate, I just don't see what India gets from it.
     
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  13. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    @Abingdonboy

    I am now of a opinion to cancel MII for Ka226t.
    The requirements for light helos are urgent , therefore simply 120-150 should be procured from Russia and we only set up a Repair and Overhaul facility.

    Russians can deliver ~100 of these in 3-4 years , by the time we can concentrate only on HAL LUH.
     
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  14. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    A one-off off the shelf deal would be preferable and would make more sense than this futile MII attempt that seems to be stuck on issue after issue. As it is I am fearful that the Ka-226 MII will have a negative impact on the HAL LUH simply by the nature of resource distrubution by HAL, I would be pleased to see a private player getting this kind of expsoure but the Russians picking HAL has put HAL in a pretty awkward position. I am still yet to see any news that HAL will be setting up a dedicated assembly plant for the Ka-226 so if that means they will share the plant with LUH production also the latter will be affected.

    It is clear the Russians have played the Indian side (once again) and are using the considerable investment HAL is making in the LUH to subsidise their Ka-226 MII plans.


    Of course with just an off the shelf deal, the issues of a high(er) through-life costs as well as those associated with a lack of fleet harmonisation would be there but the potential pain would be minimised to a large degree, the route the GoI/MoD is currently pursuing is really the worst of all worlds; costly, slow deliveries, complex agreements, maybe affecting domestic projects and no ToT or private industry support.


    If the outright scrapping of the Ka-226 deal can't be done I would certainly be in favour of your option @Ankit Kumar 001 , otherwise India is getting a truly horrid deal.
     
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  15. Guynextdoor

    Guynextdoor Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    No dude, this does not happen until it has actually happened. There was a time when people predicted IJT will go into production in 4 years too. While I agree that possibility of failure is low, let the platform prove itself, let the production start. Production by 2019- I'm sure that won't be the case. If by 2022 we have a line of 30 units per year running, that would be a great achievement. By then we may have 70 units of the KA already working. These are 'evergreen' requirements so we may get the KAs first complemented and then replaced by LUH.
     

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