Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Hinduism and caste system !!!

Discussion in 'The Big Adda' started by Star Wars, May 26, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Star Wars

    Star Wars Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,027
    Likes Received:
    304
    The caste system has existed in different phases throughout the times. Originally it was meritocratic(merit based) then it became birth-based. Later, Western people abused it to their own advantage with the "Aryan race" propoganda. Westerners, or basically white people exploited what is known as the "Aryan invasion theory" which posits that the Indians were invaded in 1500BCE by white people(Aryan race) and they imposed the caste system on the Indians which discriminated on the basis of skin colour, against darker skinned people. The white-skinned Brahmins were the highest caste. However, due to breeding with the dark skinned people, the white Brahmins lost their "colour" The Indian Brahmins were therefore an impure white race. Based on that pure whites saw themselves as a super-caste.

    Of course the Aryan invasion theory was nothing more than racist propoganda typical of 19th century European academia and was used as a political tool to justify colonial rule in India and also by social darwinianists to justify white racial supremacy and hence their birth-right to rule, exploit and harm other "races". The truth is there was no white-invaders who invaded India in 1500BCE and the caste system was not a racist system.

    The caste system discriminates on the basis of "varna" which means ones merit or quality and organizes society into complex divisions based on the "varna" The four main types of varnas are: teachers, warriors, merchants and laborers. In the original caste system deciding the varna you would belong to is done on the basis of education. The education system access your aptitude and then train you in one vocation which would be your vocation for your entire life. If you had no education you would be a labourer caste by default. The other castes are called "twice born" because you needed to become educated to be assigned to them. In the birth-based caste system, because education was no longer available to the masses due to changing social circumstances, so the masses would gain their education from their family instead. So if you were born into a family of blacksmiths, you would be educated as a blacksmith.

    Each caste are assigned a set of duties and has certain entitlements and different rules regulating them. The highest caste being Brahmins, are the only ones entitled to higher education and are exempt from paying any taxes, but they are not entitled to owning capital or earning a living. Whatever they are given is donation from others or the state. As Brahmins are seen as the teachers and therefore advisors to society, the law is much more harsh on them for commiting a crime than other castes. Modern equivalent: Academic class.

    The warrior caste, which included government, are entitled to basic education, but are not entitled to owning capital. Their duties are to serve civilians. The warriors duties are to protect civilians, the administrators/superintendents's duties are to supervise the correct functioning of the various industries, the kings duties are to ensure the correct distribution of tax revenues and maintaining social order. Modern equivalent: Civil service class

    The merchant caste are entitled to basic education, ownership of capital and the goods they produce, selling and trading. They employ the labourer caste. A portion of their produce must be given to the state.
    Modern equivalent: capitalist class.

    The labourer caste are not entitled to any formal education and nor are they entitled to owning capital. They are entitled only to wages which they exchange for their labour by working for the other castes. The punishment for commiting crimes for them are the most leniant of all castes. Modern equivalent: working class.

    The caste system was therefore a very efficient and rigid social system which maintained order in Hindu society. It is due to this that this system has been able to endure over thousands of years and Hindu society has maintained its values and traditions. For this reason it was seen as a huge threat by Western people and the biggest obstacle against taking control of India, so it became the subject of much derision and demonization.

    Thankyou to Indigochild from ATS forum

    Its highly recommended people to read the above thread in that forum. the information is mind boggling..
    Ask a Hindu anything!, page 1
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  2. RobbieS

    RobbieS 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    69
    Great job at putting a positive spin on a repressive system.
     
    3 people like this.
  3. Star Wars

    Star Wars Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,027
    Likes Received:
    304
    The entire system was turned repressive,the caste system you see now is not what it was meant to be. How about reading the article next time...
     
  4. RobbieS

    RobbieS 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    69
    How about you stop view things as they were and not go looking positives in them?. Don't try and defend something that was a horrible wrong in our society. The caste system might have its positives but they are greatly outnumbered by the negatives. The simple fact that a community was deemed untouchable and condemned to perform the most horrible of jobs generation after generations is the worst a society could ever do to its own.
     
    2 people like this.
  5. Star Wars

    Star Wars Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,027
    Likes Received:
    304
    You are absolutely unable to read the article and understand it ... because if you did read the article, you would not have took your time to write this post...
     
  6. RobbieS

    RobbieS 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    69
    Care to explain in two sentences whats wrong in my understanding? You can start by pointing out the flaws in my first post.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Coltsfan

    Coltsfan <b>SENIOR MEMBER</b> SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    502
    Thanks for providing a view point of the history of Caste system in Hinduism.

    Was the purpose of starting this thread just to provide a historical background of caste system or is it something else? I would have preferred if you had provided your view points on the Caste system except for just copy-pasting the article.

    Do you agree with the following paragraph that is contained in the article?

     
  8. Star Wars

    Star Wars Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,027
    Likes Received:
    304
    The flaws in your post is the lack of understanding of my first port ..


    The caste system discriminates on the basis of "varna" which means ones merit or quality and organizes society into complex divisions based on the "varna" The four main types of varnas are: teachers, warriors, merchants and laborers. In the original caste system deciding the varna you would belong to is done on the basis of education. The education system access your aptitude and then train you in one vocation which would be your vocation for your entire life.

    ** now read the above paragraph should answer your question. the current caste system does not follow this practice, the point of this thread was to highlight how the real casts system worked..
     
  9. Star Wars

    Star Wars Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,027
    Likes Received:
    304
    @Coltsfan

    Yes... i actually do..because uneducated nincampoops would not end up as decision makers of the society which are the teachers, and you work was based on your education and your aptitude . if you wanted to be a teacher or a brahmin, you had to prove your worth to the teacher which would allow you to have further education, thus getting you from warrior class to the brahmin class. hence the old caste system was based on YOU and not on your birth..

    The times when this system really existed, children was supposed to only learn from years of 5-25 based on the ashrama system..
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  10. xXX-Nair:::Saab-XXx

    xXX-Nair:::Saab-XXx Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,113
    Likes Received:
    831
    Nice topic we need to discuss such issues in length & breadth...These System was essential during those early days...but its causing a huge damage to the present society...I couldn't renounce my Cast & my surname from my birth certificate...But i sincerely hope my Children & Grandchildren would have balls to renounce it...:sad:
     
  11. RobbieS

    RobbieS 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    69
    So what's new about that? I thought we all knew that the caste/varna system started out a profession based system but degenerated into a repressive and regressive community based system over the years. Probable causes - power, greed and a need for control by the groups/castes in power.

    What I took exception to was the last para where you (or the guy from whose blog you took it) sought to give a positive spin and proclaim it the reason why Hindu society had survived for so long. Hindu society and India in general has also suffered a lot because of the caste system. Perhaps I dont need to go into that for you as you seem smart enough.
     
  12. Star Wars

    Star Wars Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,027
    Likes Received:
    304

    As i said, am pointing out to the original casts system, and not the degenerated shit which exists now...

    edit: btw...that's not a blog its a forum with huge amount of information...
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  13. Coltsfan

    Coltsfan <b>SENIOR MEMBER</b> SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    502
    You are speaking in very vague terms, how do you propose to implement the Caste system in present form of governance? What would be the benefits of such a system?

    "Where you end up depends largely on where you start from". How do you suppose a person born in Shudra caste who feels lucky if he can find food, can even dream of competing against someone born in a higher caste? Do you remember the story of Eklavya who had to sacrifice his right thumb despite being a better archer than the royal princes simply because he didn't belong to the warrior caste?

    This type of system does nothing to truly assess merit, but instead makes sure society is stratified and remains that way.

    Perhaps this system was good for its time, but to make a case that the caste system is relevant in a modern society is pretty ignorant.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Star Wars

    Star Wars Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,027
    Likes Received:
    304
    The caste system was not based on birth earlier on but was based on merit. If you where born to a lower caste didn't really matter because the teachers(Brahmins) decided you work or your class based on your education and merit.. Its clearly written in the article.

    actually, even now your work is based on your education. but the problem is that the current system does not include politics and governance...So even an uneducated idiot can go to governance and politics while you need to prove your self to be in the warrior class(army) , earlier the teachers themselves where the dicision makers of the society...why...because they earned it through education....

    The caste system based on birth is the one your pointing out is the degenerated version with untouchables,currupt higher class etc etc......
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  15. Rudrakx

    Rudrakx Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    963
    Likes Received:
    218
    I don't really care how caste system was originated and why, I just want it to be officially scrapped from Hindu Society. Abusing or not all descriptions about lower cast society must be removed from main Hindu literatures. rewrite literatures if needed.
    Caste system is outdated for long long time !
     
    2 people like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page