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I Oppose Aam Admi Party

Discussion in 'National Politics' started by tilopa, Nov 26, 2012.

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  1. RoYaN

    RoYaN Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    And the BJP was screaming from every roof top on how it was the best thing to happen to the state.
     
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  2. Kejriwal4PM

    Kejriwal4PM 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    That is the tax structure that should normally be enforced. But the main argument was because you were supporting exemptions to such taxes to the tune of 6 lakh crores per year like it was last year alone.

    Also, the dividend that I was referring to was not just the cash dividend that is paid from profits. Even when no cash dividend is paid, the value of the share increases in proportion to the company's bottom line (among other things) and this bottom line increases when there is lesser/zero corporate tax. The capital gains tax when you sell a company's equity is currently 0.01% & 0.12% for long term gains to 15% for short term (less than 1yr). When you take away corporate tax, then Ambanis and tatas would pay just ~0.01% whenever they sell their shares. If they sell other assets it is currently 20%. Given that Ambanis and tatas are rich not through their salary but through their equities, this is really less if you take away corporate tax!
     
  3. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I have properties whose value goes up by 10-15% everyyear. I pay property tax on them. I have not sold them and have made no profit from their sale. Do you want me to pay taxes on this value addition? Every farmer is worth millions in Haryana/UP/Punjab, why dont you apply the same logic for them? Recently a farmer from Punjab took a VIP car number for a bidding of 17 lakhs and still he pays no income tax while a man earning 2.5 lakhs per year has to pay tax. All benefits like car/phone/fuel etc to directors are taxed. I hope you know that. But do you know that all such facilities given to Baboos/ politicians are not taxed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  4. Kejriwal4PM

    Kejriwal4PM 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Banning of futures trading is on AAP manifesto. Also some of the core members of AAP have been advocates of agricultural reforms. I would like to read the reforms suggested in that committee report if that is accessible.

    But I am not sure about gov mandis. Maybe just for few products? Because Bharti already procures from farmers directly. I didnt see any regulation even at the place I went to - it was just an open wholesale market where farmers and middlemen negotiated, often to the disadvantage of farmers.

    Also, note that BJP and Modi have opposed FDI in retail even though farmers have all welcomed it! Kejriwal is also not against FDI retail.
     
  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    There is a difference in open market sale and contract farming. What Bharti and walmart does is called contract farming. They pick up the whole produce so it is never marketed openly and so the provision of GOI do not apply to them.
    In Maharastra, agricultural marketing cooperatives were formed which bypassed the GOI rules regarding sale to only govt mandies as they srtarted exporting. The powerful mandi mafia had all their produce rejected in foriegn markets by creating problems for them. These govt mandi mafia is so powerful. This happened to farmer cooperatives of Nashik. Check it and you will know. You guys need to study well if you want to make and air your opinions. Half baked knowledge will demolish you guys for being stupid. I can help you draft a very good agricultural policy which can change the way we look at our economy.
     
  6. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Modi is for FDI he has allowed Walmart in Gujrat and so has Akaalies in Punjab. So is BJP. I too support FDI in retail. But the way congress has gone about it will benefit MNCs and not farmers. Pls understand that Congress is biggest capitalist exploitative system in India.
     
  7. Kejriwal4PM

    Kejriwal4PM 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    The principle behind property tax is that one could get income from it through rent etc. Its a different matter if you didnt rent it. But I am talking about something else - I am talking about the increased money you would get from selling a property like equity shares etc (and even from land/building from which you have been collecting rent). You know the difference in principle between property tax and capital gains tax right? Or do you want me to explain? The increase in value of a corporate translates into increase in value of its equity shares. So, why you advocate such 6 lakh crore Rs tax breaks, you are advocating zero taxes on these increased value of shares which will be taxed only at long/short term Capital gains tax which are like 0.1% - 15%!!
     
  8. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    As stated I am well aware of all tax provisions. To correct you here, the property tax is paid on the registered value and not present market value. Longterm capital gains tax in India is 10% and shortterm is 20% and you have a waiver if you reinvest the money into another property. same is true about value of shares and networth of a company. Its only if you sell the shares that the capital gains tax become applicable. The value addition unless converted into real liquidity does not attract any tax. You pay tax on real gain/income and not on hypothetical gain/income. For that matter, as an individual my own value as a professional is higher now compared to what it was when I was in navy. Shud i pay professional tax while I have not earned anything from my enhanced knowledge base?
     
  9. Kejriwal4PM

    Kejriwal4PM 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I am sure you can, and you should start with putting some sense into Modi's balding head and the heads of BJP. When you say Modi and BJP are pro-FDI retail, it is laughable since they have been crying from all roof tops that they are not. What you are referring to in Gujarat is Walmart participating only in backend operation. There is no reason to allow them in front end too, when consumers will benefit from free-market pressure to reduce prices, and the cartelization of middlemen will be under check. Of course we need proper competition regulators to check collusion, cartel formation and predatory pricing of retail giants, but that is true for indian retail as much as it is true for foreign retail. At least FDI bill mandates that 50% of products be sourced from India while there is no such rule right now for indian retailers.

    As for that contract farming, I see what you mean. But most states have reformed APMC quite a bit, and many states (like in TN, AP etc) have farmers market where farmers can access consumer markets directly. But my point still remains: How will you check collusion and cartel formation in a diffused market spread all over rural India (where mandis are abolished) when you cant control them in a mandi? If you say free-markets will provide that force, you should know that the reason for walmart etc to be hated so much is not because of their legal activity but because of their predatory practices (of undercutting consumer prices and overpaying supplies in the short term to attain monopoly both sides) which are blatantly illegal. I am not saying one needs mandi, but I want to know how you will control such malpractices.
     
  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Thats where knowledge and understanding plays a big role. How to break this cartel is a billion dollar question and I know the answer.
    Do you know the rate at which a farmer sells milk to cooperatives and at what rates the enterprising guys drive over 100 kms a day to directly sell milk to households and what kind of profit margins they have?
     
  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Why can,t the farmers in India create equivalent of Walmart in India? Fixed price round the year for longterm clients. I hope you know how the food chain works and what all is needed in that. tell me one city with a population of over one million which produces food within its boundaries? It all comes from villages around them which are located all around them. We now have cell access in all villages and so do we have net access.
     
  12. Kejriwal4PM

    Kejriwal4PM 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    It is 10-20% for properties and 0.1-15% for equity shares. So, if Ambani's daughter decides to sell some shares, with no corporate tax, the only tax she will pay on her wealth accrued through Reliance's growth all these years will be merely 0.1%. This is why corporate tax is levied. Your knowledge base will be taxed (income etc) when you use it in providing service. But equity is not taxed at the level of income. So, if you invest 100Rs every year in equities, and at the end of that year, sell it, collect profits and invest back just 100 Rs back (or maybe +inflation-adjusted), the extra money you have can serve as your steady yearly income. But this is taxed only at 0.1% irrespective of the amount earned. This is why corporate tax is levied - to tax such increases in equity value at source.
     
  13. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    You get 10% of the sale value and not invested value. But you will be surprised to know that so called FDI thru Maurisus and singapur is all Indian black money which gets invested in shares in India and they being offshore entities do not pay any tax on profits or dividends. So its better to become an NRI and become a foreign company to looto India while using all Indian infra and cheap labour. My company is 100% indian registered and I am an Indian and not an NRI. I pay all my taxes in full.
     
  14. Kejriwal4PM

    Kejriwal4PM 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I dont know about milk prices, but I would love to hear your solution to collusion, cartel and predatory pricings which even USA has not been able to prevent through its anti-trust laws (one of the strongest in the world) in every sector from Rockefeller oil to Microsoft IT to Walmart retail.

    As for farmers forming retails, they can and nothing prevents them right now (through cooperative route). Similarly for consumers too (through similar cooperative route). Both have been tried and it didnt catch up. But that doesnt mean we should disallow retail giants. If that were so, why just in retail? Consumers can form cooperative cement factories (collusion in cement producers was a major problem!) to education institutions etc etc. Such things do exist (IG cooperative hospital, Amul, IFFCO, Lijjat Papad etc), but havent caught up big. In fact I am a big supporter of such free-market cooperatives, but the fact that you support them in retail makes you a socialist. You know that right? :D You may say that you are not really referring to cooperatives but to equities. You should know that equities are not so far off from coop - while profits are shared proportionate to equity held in former case, it is shared equally in latter. They all lie on a smooth transition on the socialism-capitalism scale. So, farmers can also float a 'farmers trust fund' that can invest in Walmart-Bharti and nominate their director who can influence policies.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  15. Kejriwal4PM

    Kejriwal4PM 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    What do you mean I get 10% of sale value? Who takes away the rest 90?!

    And ya, I agree on FII. Its not just FII, but even export figures were inflated. All this happened in the exact months in which congress started this talk of investigating black money (and it still remains a talk!). Read more on this: Scam 2.0: How $40 bn of exports and FII flows may be fiction
     
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