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I Oppose Aam Admi Party

Discussion in 'National Politics' started by tilopa, Nov 26, 2012.

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  1. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    How can free market be socialist? What I am saying is to break the cartel and use subsidy in a diff way to ensure right price/market price to a farmer. IMO we must use subsidy for farm sector to create a free and open market rather than trying to control this market. And increase production and direct sale to reduce the need for storage which results in rot and pilferage. every household in India has capacity to store its annual supply of wheat/rice for the whole family. lets use that storage facility.
    A family of four wheat eaters only nees less than 70kgs of wheat in a yr and just about 30 kgs of rice. That means one sack of grain which can be easily stored anywhr in a house.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  2. Kejriwal4PM

    Kejriwal4PM 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    See! This is why you guys should all learn some economics before bashing someone (AK) as lacking knowledge of economics! Do you know that there is even market-based communism (or anarcho communism)? Political philosophies are statism and libertarianism. Within each of these, you can have either socialism (~left) or capitalism (~right) and centrism. Free-market socialism comes under an overlapping region between left-central, while publicly traded companies are somewhere in right-central, with communism and capitalism on either extremes. Cooperatives like Amul, Aavin, IFFCO, Lijjat Papad etc etc are all free-market socialist enterprises.

    You still have not told me how you will control/break cartel, collusion and predatory pricing (to both consumers and suppliers). US silicon valley was one of the most free markets, and yet Microsoft was indulging in anti-competitive behavior till anti-trust case broke that. The success rate of anti-trust laws are small - because, it is hard to establish collusion, cartel and predatory pricing. Two small wholesale buyers in rural india would just decide to collude (over buying of a farmer's stock) over tea or over sms.

    Collusion, cartelization and predatory pricing are as big a hurdle in free-market (or libertarianism) and as hard to control as the hurdles of leakages and corruption in statism. While there is enormous cr*ping of unsolicited views on vices of statism (of which there are a lot), there are hardly any on vices of free-market. The view that market controls itself is like saying state is powerful enough to check corruption in statism.

    Storing wheat and rice is fine, but what about perishable food (veg etc) which also forms a bulk of the nutritional food?

    So, what was the conclusion of that corporate tax thing? - Do you still believe that it shoud be abolished or at least that the 6 lakh crore rupees annual corporate welfare is needed? I am not asking to abolish all, but just like in social welfare, there has to be strict vigilance on who exactly are cornering these benefits.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  3. Skull and Bones

    Skull and Bones Doctor Death Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Not going to vote for him unless he comes up with a clear strategy on different national/political issues, this blame game won't take him too far.

    Bahut aise aaye aur chale bhi gaye, IIT se parne se koi PM ban sakta to desh me saal me 4000 PM candidates nikalte hai.
     
  4. Kejriwal4PM

    Kejriwal4PM 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Fair enough. Before deciding that AAP is a taking India back to Nehruvian socialism, you should watch the discussion on CNNIBN yesterday - Can Kejriwal's Aam Aadmi Party be a political gamechanger? Politics News Videos-IBNLive

    APP's Yogendra Yadav said(paraphrasing):
    (1) He himself agreed that banking too much on instruments of nationalization and public-sector companies have clearly failed India in 50s and 60s, and so a more centrist and a more intelligent view of economy is needed for equitable growth (both words are important).
    (2) And party's economic policy drafts are still under preparation by the economic committee group and will be released for discussion soon.
     
  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Have you heard of mixed economy? This is what Nehru proposed and implemented. we all know the disaster it was. You are proposing same thing. I do not know what your age is but way back in 1979 we read about this mixed economy in my 9th class. It was taught to us as being a great economic model in civics subject.
     
  6. Kejriwal4PM

    Kejriwal4PM 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    You are again confusing - mixed refers to mix of statism and libertarianism. Centrism is a mix of left and right.

    In any case, show me one economy in this world which is pure libertarianism. Even USA has statist policies along with nonstate/libertarian policies. It is neither pure capitalism. So, even India will always be mixed and centrist, but question is to what extent. If you are one of those far-right loonies who advocate pure capitalism, there is nothing to discuss with you just the same way I dont discuss with far-left communist loonies. There is just too much ground between us to exchange anything.

    But I am still waiting for your views on how you will control collusion, predatory pricing and cartel formation in free-markets. Also, to my earlier examples of microsoft, rockefeller, indian cement industries etc, you can also add paid journalism since it is also collusion between free-market media and politicians/corporates, and can happen in any nondescript corner of India among any of thousands of media houses.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  7. Devil

    Devil Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    i am going to enjoy this :LMAO:
     
  8. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    You are not the only one who will :LMAO:
     
  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I answered it for you longback. Panchayat controlled agricultural cooperatives is what is needed to replace these cartels. we need to have micro level management at graam panchayat level to manage our single biggest contributor to our economy. macro management will not work here. Instead of mandies, the wholesale dealers shud be asked to buy from these cooperatives only. help these panchayats to create thr own distribution system directly. That will boost employment in village as the panchayat will turn into a net employer besides doing other welfare activities.
     
  10. Kejriwal4PM

    Kejriwal4PM 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    But I also replied to it long back saying such cooperatives can already be formed even today by law, and some are already in existence, but the number of such free-market socialist enterprises is very small. You may say govt should do more to facilitate such (ie. statist intervention) but I dont see what more can govt do other than advertising such ideas like coops that villagers are already aware of (coops are big in villages). Also, cooperatives are not very different to other free-market enterprises - take the recent mess in Tambaram Cooperative Bank. You may say coops should not be too big and unwieldy, but you cant deny the benefits of economies of scale.

    Also, my question (asking for your views on how you will control collusion, predatory pricing and cartel formation in free-markets) was not just for agri sector but, like I exemplified, even for IT, cement, Petro, media etc etc etc - basically all sectors.
     
  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I do have answers for all your questions but I wish to know, are you here as a blogger or are you trying to finalise your economic agenda based on inputs from members here.
     
  12. Marqueur

    Marqueur Peaceful Silence ELITE MEMBER

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    dont be surprised if the real Mr.K repeats whatever you have posted here ... :cheesy:

    What happens when a new fancy restaurant opens in your city ... people will flock to it ... what will happen when they come to know that this restaurant serves only one dish ... same with Mr.K ... he has new fancy political party ... and is enticing people with only one thing "fight against corruption" ... as VSTOL said in his post #9 what about foriegn Policy, Trade, defence & Security, market reforms, employment generations etc.

    I'll eat in Mr.K 's restaurant only when he offers me a full plate ...

    and K4PM PLEASE dont bother to reply to this post ... i cannot compete with ur stupidity ...
     
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  13. Kejriwal4PM

    Kejriwal4PM 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Oh man, you ask too many rhetorical questions before coming to the point :rolleyes2:
    Why, do your answers change if I am one or the other? In that case, I want to know both, so assume I can be both.

    @Marqueur: Dont bother. I only interact with those who have demonstrated their knowledge with intelligent exchanges. Not someone who cr*ps and scoots :D
     
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  14. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    We have most recent example of mamta. she too came to power in WB promising Poribartan. She has turned out to be the biggest flop show of independent India. We do not want another Mamta in AK. One is enough.
     
  15. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Avery large and well oiled system is already in Place for providing full functional autonomy to nearly all sectors of industry and prevent cartelisation and monopolistic practices by group of people of the same industry. Compulsory audit of anyone suspected of cartel and temp suspension from trading are some of the ways which can be used to break the backbone of such cartels but again you need political will. Take for example airline industry. All airlines have to get their fares approved by DGCA and they cant charge a fare higher than that. But DGCA looks the other way and does nothing about it. Put an RTI to DGCA on the approved fare chart of each airline and you will see how the pax are being fleeced with no intervention by DGCA.
     
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