Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

IAF Airborne Early Warning Systems - A-50EI Phalcon, DRDO Netra AEW&C, DRDO AWACS

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Agent_47, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    We know how much time you have when you can't answer a question even after I gave you the answer.

    Why?

    Nope. Phalcons has the advantage in all three.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  2. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    Firstly, the P-8I has better accuracy than the Phalcon. Meaning, it can perform airspace management better than the Phalcons can, to the point where it can even provide fire control.

    Secondly, the IN's requirement for the E-2 is only because it can be launched from a carrier. Best of luck if you think a P-8 can take off from a carrier.

    Lastly, if you really know how radars worked, you and X_Killer wouldn't make such dumb posts one after another.
     
  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3,462
    It's always kind of strange when you see a short answer followed by a lengthy explanation. But when at least half of the points allready show to opposite it's kind of understandable.
    So your own argument is based on the fact that an AWACS is meant to search and detect primarily for air targets and direct other aircrafts to the target, which is exactly what the P8I is not meant for! It was procured for maritime reconnaissance and anti submarine, that's why it uses a ground surveillance radar, flir systems and even specifically an MAD, which other P8 customers didn't added. The latter alone requires the pilot fly complete different mission profiles than AWACS aircrafts, that uses the high altitude to further increase the detection range, rather than fly low to efficiently use the MAD or ID a maritime target.

    You might want to check the P8Is once again, because they don't have a refuelling probe, therfore can't be refuelled by IL78. That's why IAF specifically added refuelling probes to at least some of their C130Js, just as it was required for the Embraer 99 aircraft. So unless Boeing adds that capability later to the P8I, or IAF / IN buys a tanker with boom refuelling capability, that's not going to happen either.
    Care to explain? Could be wrong, but does the P8 have a SATCOM antenna like the Phalcon or DRDO AWACS? We customised data link and IFF, but are you sure that the sigint capabilities were also customised to be on a level of the Phalcon or DRDO AWACS?
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3,462
    So more excuses for ignoring the obvious. :disagree:
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    So I give away the fact that the P-8 has a more accurate radar than a Phalcon does, but you would still consider that as, in your words, "lack of a proper surveillance radar for A2A detection".

    What in your opinion is a "proper surveillance radar"?

    Does the P-8 lack a "proper surveillance radar" because it does not have a dome on its back? :lol:
     
  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3,462
    Of course because at first that's nothing but a claim and secondly, proper long range A2A detection is the base for an AWACS. So it doesn't matter what new excuse you come up with, all that matters is, the Boeing 737 Wedgetail is an AWACS, the P8I is a mairtime reconnaissance and ASW aircraft.
     
    X_Killer likes this.
  7. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    Country Flag:
    India
    Nice way to going personal, good.

    Anyways, stick with your veering nature Bcoz you have nothing to do except showing yourself as Defense studd Which you are not...

    You're saying that p-8i have all Capabilities better than phalcon along with your biased answer that it can't replace phalcon AWACS, WHY?

    Claims contradictory to itself...
     
  8. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    If you want to understand why the P-8 doesn't have a big dome while the Phalcon does, you only need to know very basic information about radars.

    Start reading:
    http://www.radartutorial.eu/index.en.html

    :lol:

    The P-8 is not just a maritime reconnaissance aircraft. It's a Multimission Maritime Aircraft. The Indian version combines maritime capabilities with AWACS.

    The Wedgetail is an 'inferior' aircraft meant for small export nations. If you notice the USN doesn't operate any dedicated AWACS apart from their very small carrier capable E-2s. Even they rely primarily on the P-8 now.

    If you learn the difference between early warning and fire control, it will solve all your headache.
     
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    :lol: Claiming I'm going personal when it was you who attacked me first.

    Answer the questions I posed, let's see if you really know more than IAF and IN combined. :biggthumpup:

    I am not veering away from anything, you are the one trying to run away since you cannot even answer a question that I have already given the answer for. I have literally given you the answer to the very question I have asked you and you can't even answer that. :lol:

    This is hilarious. Two people with absolutely ZERO knowledge on radars are commenting on radars while assuming the people you are talking to can't call your BS. :lol:

    I know the reason why, but do you?

    Can you tell me why the P-8I cannot replace the Phalcon for the IAF? I already gave you a clue, "Can you operate a destroyer in Kashmir?"
     
  10. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    Country Flag:
    India
    First one you:pleasantry:

    Question for a question never make an answer. I know that your username contains "random"but Don't post random questions here.
    Oil your unused brain and answer to the mess which is created by you.
    Yup, you can operate...
    :rofl:
     
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    :rolleyes:

    http://www.radartutorial.eu/index.en.html
     
  12. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    Country Flag:
    India
    Nice answer!
    Hats off.

    Bro, for your kind information , I'm m.tech . In signal transmission and my project (thesis) was on "Radar and Antennas" and right now I'm researching on "The Design of Signal Processing and Hardware for a Stepped Frequency Ground Penetrating Radar". Also working at SAMTEL
    Due to this project & job, I don't have enough free time.

    So please , answer to the question ..
     
  13. turkish

    turkish Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    310
    Hello Folks !! Can we have Truce here? Agree to Disagree and move on? What say?

    Anyways!!! any new on A330-based AWACS ??
     
    Sancho, randomradio and Blackjay like this.
  14. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    4,904
    Country Flag:
    India
    Anywhere you can reference this purported claim of mine? Please do point this one out .... :)

    Optimisation of the platforms for their tasks has been done as required. P8Is can be configured to fire cruise missiles too, whereas the Phalcons have been given specified tasks. It is like comparing two platforms in an armoured division - a tank and an Infantry Carrier Vehicle and arguing that since Tank has a better survivability, one must induct more tanks than ICVs. The roles are different.

    However, the upgrade of the BMP-2s to include 2 ATGM launch tubes to deal with tanks is like the delegation of an additional task.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
    Blackjay likes this.
  15. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    4,904
    Country Flag:
    India
    But also has been configured for detection, tracking and vectoring aerial targets too! Links given. What beats you from understanding that? :)


    Air-To-Air Mode

    Corresponding Emission Designator
    : 7M03P0N

    Mode Description: Air-to-Air Mode is used for searching and tracking airborne objects in the surrounding area. Emission bandwidth for Air-to-Air Mode was calculated using Mason-Zimmerman Approximation tool in the EL-CID v5.1 r81 program. The necessary bandwidth (-20dB) was determined using by the Mason-Zimmerman Approximation curve plot.

    Receiver: The receiver operates in Narrowband (NB) and Wideband (WB) modes.

    source: https://apps.fcc.gov/els/GetAtt.html?id=115127


    Who gave you the idea that P8I flies low for detection of surface and sub-surface targets? It can drop it's torpedoes from 30,000 ft ASL too.

    While the P-8 does have a strengthened hull to operate at low altitude—though at reduced fuel efficiency compared to the P-3—it’s designed to perform most of its operation from high altitude, where the thinner atmosphere allows for greater fuel efficiency and a better vantage for some of its sensors.

    http://scout.com/military/warrior/Article/Americas-P-8-Poseidon-Submarine-Killer-101459450


    This http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...-americas-p-8-poseidon-submarine-killer-20877 is a blog, but worth reading.

    They have refuelling capability, KC-46 was being positioned by US for use by Indians. And I did post a link wherein the upgrades planned along with the second tranche of purchase of 04 x P8Is has been mentioned.

    http://aviationweek.com/defense/p-8a-tests-aerial-refueling-readies-asw-shakeouts

    This from presentation to India:

    https://www.livefistdefence.com/2009/03/p-8i-presentation.html

    Additional resources:

    http://navaltoday.com/2017/04/26/us-navy-air-force-in-first-ever-p-8a-refueling/

    Read about the data communication and interlinking across multiple platforms through both INMARSAT (which we are not relying on primarily but as a standby) and it's optimisation with the RUKMANI system of IN.

    Level I have given you - 370 Kms, as opposed to 450 Kms of Phalcons (estimated for former as per data available in open sources and claimed in open sources for latter, although the same are at variance with the true figures, which remain classified)

    And I have told about one specific exercise wherein it has been the AWACS for the amphibious task force
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
    randomradio likes this.

Share This Page