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IAF Airborne Early Warning Systems - A-50EI Phalcon, DRDO Netra AEW&C, DRDO AWACS

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Agent_47, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The source listed in my post on range is OEM's range (Tikhomerov Institute). Surely they will give correct figures? Mig 29 sized at 140 km at most. And sea targets too. So where is 400 km coming for sea targets?

    400 km for aerial is accepted as clutter is not a factor as range to detection increases

    And I gave 200 NM for P8I as working figure as it remains classified. By no means is that a figure either.

    Been hinting that P8I is a newer platform, so just get the hint.

    Phalcons rating is 450 as per open source, so we say 450. Ka-31 is 150 kms for Aerial .. so extrapolate to P8I. You will get a very rudimentary idea.

    The whole thing started with you raising doubts about P8I acting as an AWACS .... which was a misplaced doubt on your part.

    I suggest stop wasting time and move on. No platform, be it Su-30 or Phalcom or P8I is acting exclusively as standalone. They are networked and working as a system. This greatly enhances the range .. hence your 1000 kms (as quoted by you) of Phalcon (open sourced).

    That is why, IAF has confidence of stitching up PAF in first 2 days and then shifting to counter China from dissuasive posture.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
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  2. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Are you sure this needs to be out there? I'm sure even PAF knows, but why let it come from here.
     
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  3. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I have no offence to stop this non-productive discussion.

    anyways The text/range i quoted is available in open source (already shared) while the text/range quoted by you as given below
    is about the N011 which is prior variant of N011M ( which is an improved variant).
    All of the four links shared by you have exactly same data and its wasting of time to read all of them.

    As APY-10(I) has a range of scanning of surface (which is its primary role) of 370.4Km so it can't be obvious that A2A (additional feature) range also be same.

    yes, its true that no platform acting as standalone. they all are meant to engage all platfoms to hunt in groups.

    I never quoted that range of 1000km (from open source) for scanning and targeting, that was for COMINT as mentioned on that site.

    finally, If there is anything extra than i'll be interested to read it. I'm getting bored to read and type the same thing repeatedly.
    we shared many things in common but have very few differences...

    I'm closing this topic in unresolved state..

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
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  4. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Ok guys time to wind up this discussion. Let's move on.
     
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  5. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Ok The latest 2 Phalcons that we are buying is similar to the previous 3 we bought or a next generation?
     
  6. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Mostly similar but with better COMSEC and slightly more Indigenous content.
     
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  7. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    It's next gen stuff. The Phalcon we operate is already 15+ year old technology. In fact it is as old as the late 90s, so it's nearly 20 years old now. Meaning, anything today is next gen by those standards.

    We don't know if it's GaN, but it will be much more advanced than the radars and ESM equipment than the one on Gulfstream CAEW, which is based on the Greenpine. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's GaN because it's becoming standard for L band radars now.
     
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  8. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Then this debate of next generation phalcons vs P8I is sure to emerge again. :)

    Is it possible to upgrade the older ones with GaN or we are going to retire after sometime .
     
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    It won't. The radars themselves are very different. A direct comparison will be unnecessary.

    All aircraft will undergo MLUs. The old Phalcons will stay for as long as the platform is still flying. So they will get a decent round of upgrades by 2030.
     
  10. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Features and Capabilities-Phalcon AWACS (Airborne Warning And Control System),Indian AirForce
    [​IMG]

    The Phalcon AWACS consists of an Israeli Elta EL/W-2090 radar mounted on a Russian II-76 aircraft. This radar is a 360 ° Active electronically Scanning Array (AESA) which is mounted inside a dome on top of the Il-76. The speciality of the radar is that it is stationary as its beams are electronically steered as well, which eliminates the need for the radar to be steered mechanically. This allows it to track targets 10 times faster when compared to well-known systems like the E-3 Sentry. It has an integrated IFF system, Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) and ECCM suites for self-protection, Electronic Intelligence (ELINT) for collecting data about enemy radars and monitoring communications and SatCom systems.

    [​IMG]

    The AWACS also played vital role in Network Centric Operations along with other crucial systems like Operational Data Link (ODL), Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) and the Air Force Net (AFNET) system of the IAF.

    The Phalcon AWACS also helps to monitor troop build-up and helps mobilize other activities across the borders.Phalcon System is built around an ELTA EL/M-2075 AESA L-band radar with other communications intelligence (COMINT) gathering capabilities.The system can also receive transmissions from other air and ground stations and uses sensor fusion to provide a complete picture of the battle space out to several hundred kilometers.
    [​IMG]
    The A-50EI/PHALCON’s EL/M-2075 mission avionics suite of these three PHALCONs includes the L-band active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar (comprising three antenna arrays mounted in a triangular manner) contained within a radome above the fuselage. The electronically-steered beam provides 360-degree coverage around the aircraft and it carries up to 11 mission management personnel for airspace surveillance and airborne battlespace management.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    UPGRADES INCLUDED FOR RECENTLY ORDERED PHALCONS:

    1. The platform will be a new-generation successor to the IL-76, called IL-476, featuring a fully-digital fly-by-wire flight control system, glass cockpit avionics and PS-90A-76 turbofans.

    2. Upgraded BARCO of Belgium supplied the 20-inch AMLCDs for the mission management suit, with Tadiran SpectraLINK supplying the secure digital data links.

    3. Upgraded computers with No changes in the primary sensors including EL/W-2090 & EL/M-2075.

    4. Upgraded COMSEC

    5. more sophisticated network integration with upgraded interface (will also be upgraded on present phalcons)

    6. Increment in Indigenous content used on phalcon ( details will be shared soon)
     
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  11. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    [​IMG]
    Prescribed quad radar structure for DRDO AWACS
     
  12. Angel Eyes

    Angel Eyes 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Why don't we buy the second hand planes from international airlines and then modify them to carry AWACS ...It will be lot cheaper from buying brand new aircraft....
     
  13. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Same reason you dont continue an 15 or 20 year old car & modifications be tough & structurally unsound.

    Repair & Modifications required to airframe to convert it to AWACS role be too expensive, cheaper to buy new, if you consider LCC.
     
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  14. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I would like you to think this one over. What about the replacement time frame and cost of re-modification? Will it be cheaper?
     
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  15. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    We have to pay a lot to modify the aircraft and then we can use it only for 2 decades.

    But we can use second hand jets for tankers.
     
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