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IAF Airborne Early Warning Systems - A-50EI Phalcon, DRDO Netra AEW&C, DRDO AWACS

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Agent_47, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    I'm not bashing IAF but DRDO for not seeing what's important for the defence of the country, because they want to boast that they are as good as other companies.
    Awacs India was never a requirement of IAF but a proposal pushed by DRDO. In fact IAF stated that they don't want to wait for the development of it and need more AWACS ASAP.
     
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  2. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    DRDO's job is to develop, they can't force the IAF to order more Netra, they have developed it and the IAF (or any other service) can order it as they wish, how is it the DRDO's fault if only 2 are ordered by the IAF?

    + I don't think there's anything wrong in the DRDO pushing for the AWACS (India), it will catapult India into a very elite club, will have immense benefits for numerous ongoing and future R&D projects and will be a huge bonus to the Indian taxpayer. Currently the EL/M-2090 Phalcons are costing the IAF >$500m EACH, the AWACS (India) built on the A330-200 platform will be able to deliver similar performance on a more effcient and cost-effective platform for around $400m each. If the IAF is going to order 8 such platforms (all they have commited to so far) that is an enourmous saving.

    We all say India needs to stop being dependant on imports, how is that going to happen if the DRDO doesn't aim big?
     
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  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    http://ottawacitizen.com/news/natio...-to-wait-for-indigenous-awacs-development/amp
     
  4. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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  5. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Which is fine if they do it with national security in mind and not only their own egos. All their developments are delayed or not on par with the requirements, but still they use any chance to brag about being world class isn't it? And this is not different, with the forces suffering from all the delays and failures.
     
  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    It shows that IAF didn't wanted AWACS India, therefor DRDO is not developing it out of IAFs request!
     
  7. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    DRDO is just doing what is in their interest, it is up to the decsion makers to balance the user's needs and the DRDO's promises. In complex R&D (especially first of their kind in India) there will always be an element of overconfidence and unrealistic timelines- if decsion makers use this to stall immediate requirements of the user then that is their own failure.

    Alas, in thsi case it seems the MoD/GoI has done a good job of balancing the IAF's and DRDO's interests. Enough Phalcons are being ordered off the shelf to keep the IAF (somewhat) satisifed whilst the AWACS (India) is developed.
     
  8. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    We are going to order 6 A330 and the total project cost is $3 billion. And you think MoD didn't consult IAF on this?
     
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  9. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Because AWACS (India) was/is at least 7 years away from being ready (whenever given offcial sanction ,which it only was in late 2016), IAF wanted an off the shelf solution ready today.

    It's a chicken and egg solution, how can the DRDO have a product ready now without being given time (and resources) to develop it? Like I have said above, the GoI/MoD have come to a good comprimise.
     
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  10. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    IAF and DRDO both are to b e blamed for the dismal state of these projects.
    We state lot of examples basically of the projects and how they failed

    1. Initial Requirement has been set DRDO or HAL (Indian PSW) takes their own sweet time to if not even Decades to reach the Initial requirement. By then the world has moved on to 2 generations.
    2. Then IAF requests for upgrade to that generation which they take their own sweet time and again world has moved on to next phase.

    IAF neither confirms the order nor has the capability to push these PSW's to deliver on time and back them. And Indian PSW's are budding and reaching the phase where they can grow govt. and Other entities must support them and find a way to weed out the Delayed projects and concentrate on what they can do.

    If you put your hands on toilets and drinking water etc... who is going to deliver these projects...

    I gues that is what Ex Def min Mr. Parrikar did now, splitting the DRDO and organization change. Effects will be seen after 2 or 3 years.
     
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  11. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Before this turns into a typical DRDO-bashing thread can we just stay on topic? DRDO has delivered what was asked of it; an advanced multi-mission AEW&C system, no small feat (look at how few such systems exist on the market today).

    This will give them a good foundation for the future project, what the IAF wanted all along (360' radar based on a wide body airliner).
     
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  12. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    This thread is sure going to turn to DRDO bashing thread, as IAF preferred outside source other than developed in India. Pointing fingers both are at fault.

    The initial DRDO effort to create an airborne radar commenced in the late 1990s. However, in 1999, the project was cancelled, when the prototype crashed killing eight scientists and the aircrew.

    The indigenous effort was revived in 2004, with prime responsibilities vesting with the Centre for AB Systems (CABS), Bangalore and the Defence Electronics Applications Laboratory (DEAL), Dehradun. The platform selected for the prototype were three Brazilian Embraer ERJ 145 aircraft, procured at a cost of US$ 300 million. The initial project goal for these three systems was 2013 but they were finally inducted during the IAF Fly Past on Republic Day, 2017. The equipment was also displayed during the Aero India Exhibition, at Bangalore, in Feb 2017. The indigenous mini AWACS have a coverage of only 270-degrees unlike the Israeli Phalcons, which have 360-degree coverage. Produced at a cost of US$ 340 million, the indigenous effort is also a technology demonstrator for the more ambitious AWACS-India project.

    In Mar 2015, the Defence Acquisition Counsel (DAC) approved the production of two DRDO-made AWACS, at an estimated cost of US$ 736 million. The new systems shall be mounted on specially manufactured Airbus-330 airliners and are expected to be inducted by 2020. Six more systems could be cleared, at a later stage.

    However SWACS are gaining the foothold in recent years and AWACS might become absolute in future.
     
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  13. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Only because the DRDO product didn't exist, they wanted an immediate solution (ie more of what they already had; Phalcons). Obviously if the AWACS (India) had existed at that time they would have had no issues in ordering it in lieu of a foriegn system.
     
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  14. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    DRDO had failures and atleast IAF could have provided funding for R&D instead of forcing them to shelf their project.
     
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  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    We are ordering them because MoD approved the AWACS India development, so that's a move for DRDO not to fullfil an IAF requirement for such aircrafts.
    IAF surely was consulted on the specs the aircraft and the radar system should have at the end, but that's a different story.

    It's a bad compromise, to favour DRDO and put the security of the country behind. We still haven't enough and DRDO is not even giving all EMB aircrafts to IAF, the newly ordered A50s were cleared before this issue and have their own delays and problems, which also is a reason, why it would had been good to have more DRDO AWACS now as an alternative.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
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