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IAF to get fifth gen fighters only after 2019

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by DragonKnight, May 9, 2012.

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  1. DragonKnight

    DragonKnight Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    In a strong reality check on the status of India’s fifth generation fighters, Defence Minister A K Antony has indicated that the aircraft is not likely to enter service in this decade, saying it is scheduled to get certified only by 2019.

    While both Antony and Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne have said in the past that the fighters will be ready to enter service by 2017, the minister informed Parliament on Monday that series production would start only after the aircraft gets certification.

    Antony said the detailed roadmap of the development of the fighters had been carried out with Russia — the lead partner in the programme — and the aircraft was now “scheduled to be certified by 2019, following which series production will startâ€￾. This means the fighters will not enter service till the early part of the next decade.

    This delay will come as a jolt to the Indian Air Force that has been expecting the fighters by 2017-18. In fact, India has not yet gone beyond signing the preliminary design contract of the fighters with Russia. Antony said an agreement on the research and development phase would be signed with Russia this year.

    The fighters made their first public appearance at the Moscow Air Show in 2011. Engineers of the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited have started work on its Indian version that will have two pilots unlike the Russian fighters.

    There is a sense of urgency to develop the aircraft given that China has progressed on the J 20 — its indigenous new generation fighters.


    IAF to get fifth gen fighters only after 2019 | idrw
     
  2. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Our politicians are such a pain in a$$ and speadbreakers for development. These guys are still in their old generation ideology. World have moved forward, we need to move by doubling our pace of our RND and production. I sincerely doubt the capability of Mr. Antony (Defence Minister) and does he have any vision target or goal.

    We appreciate their planning and initiatives which is very good. But when push comes to shove they are pretty much lost.
     
  3. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    ^^^You do realize that he is talking about production and recertification being taken into account? The time frame isn't being effected by politicos at this point, its just the planed course of induction, certification, and production.
     
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  4. madmax613

    madmax613 FULL MEMBER

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    I wonder if IAF will consider buying more Rafale or Su 30 MKI?? what do u guys think?
     
  5. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    If they do, it won't be to make up for the PAK FA. It will be to replace older fighters in need of replacement.
     
  6. madmax613

    madmax613 FULL MEMBER

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    wont this affect India's own fifth generation fighter to get delayed?
     
  7. arulcharles

    arulcharles Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I thought we would get 200 t-50 variant
     
  8. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Nothing to worry about really...even in 2019 IAF would be one of the first air forces of the
    world to get fifth-gen planes, and china too is likely to induct its stealth fighters roughly at the
    same time. By 2020 timeframe, the J-10B/J-11B would be the most relevent threats from PLAAF,
    and these we can handle.

    All 270+ MKIs (atleast 70-80 of them upgraded to "near-fifth generation" [according to Alexei
    Fedorov] Super Sukhoi by then) would be operational in IAF, add to it the first 2-3 operational
    squadrons of Rafale and atleast 100 LCAs (with MK-II getting inducted) and all Mirage-2Ks upgraded
    to 2000-5 Mk-2 variant. I dont think this revised timeline is going to effect the operational capabilities
    of IAF to a big extent in anyway.

    BTW i have a doubt with the above article...are they referring to the Indian-version twin-seat PMF or
    Russian single-seat fighter? According to Sukhoi CEO Pogosyan, IAF will get the Russian-version fighter
    BEFORE the twin-seat FGFA is developed and inducted, which could mean we can get 30-40 PAK-FAs from
    Russia before PMF comes in 2019. PAK-FA production line in KNAAPO is set to kick-off by 2015-2016. Pretty
    confusing this is...
     
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  9. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    I doubt that would happen,

    India scheduled to get the 1st prototype by 2015

    4 with 3 flown prototypes are ready,

    and there will be 14 by 2015.

    I am sure we will start induction by 2017 or early 2018
     
  10. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    I do understand the delay because of certification, etc… What is causing the politicians to sign the deal so late 'Antony said an agreement on the research and development phase would be signed with Russia this year’ when the sense of urgency point out has to be noted.
    There is no justification for politicians lazy commitments.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  11. DragonKnight

    DragonKnight Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Maybe we might receive a batch of PAK FAs (1 or 2 squadrons) during 2015-2017, after which they might be upgraded to FGFA.... Just like our initial Su-30Ks, recieved before what are now MKIs........ What do you guyz think?
     
  12. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    The Indian variant of the T-50 will be very different from the Russian T-50. A lot of the communications and navigation systems will be replaced on the Indian version with indigenous equipment, and equipment sourced from France and Israel. Since the preliminary deal was signed between India and Russia in December 2010, research and feasibility studies have been conducted to plan this T-50 conversion.

    You'll notice that a lot has chanced since that December 2010 agreement. For one, the IAF will be buying a lot more single seat T-50s than previously predicted, so the nature of the development has been altered. The entire process, in all, is very time consuming, which is why it has taken 18 months. The contract signed in the next year will finalise India's contribution to the PAK FA programme, as well as the numbers and variants of the T-50 we we will acquire.


    Politicians have their hands far too deep in places that hinder us, the people, more than help us, but in this one case they've been shut out of proceedings. This programme has a level of commitment from India that will transcend governments (at least two election years will pass between the signing of the final contract and the delivery of the first production variant of the Indian T-50), and has the IAF's highest level of cooperation, so the people involved will not be swayed by differing political allignments. Which I'm glad for, because I'm honestly sick of fools in the Lok Sabha trying to butt their noses into issues they've got no understanding of.

    PAK FA is the project name, and is no different from the FGFA. The official Indian term for the Indianised T-50 programme is the PMF (Perspective Multirole Fighter).

    Even if we do receive T-50s between 2015-17, time will be taken to certify them for IAF flight duty, and that isn't an overnight process. Production will not start before 2017 at HAL. Besides, the variants received from Russia will already contain the equipment specified for the Indian version, so upgrades taking place after production starts will be minimal.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  13. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    @Vritra well said.
     
  14. Nirvana

    Nirvana Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Source is weak and there is confusion in the Article,let me clarify best to my knowledge

    I Want to point out the variant we are talking about here is 2 Seater PMF,Prototype will be out by 2016 and Certification by 2019.this was said during press release by Indian govt after formal contract was signed with Russian president on December 21, 2010.The production will start thereafter i.e by start of Next decade.

    Now,the Russian Single Seater Variant the PAK-FA T-50 will see service in RAF by 2015-16.We have decided to Induct single Seater variants initially before the Twin seater variant enters production.The Single seater Variant shall be inducted probably by 2017-18.Remember the first preliminary agreement was signed in 2007 to develop a Fifth gen Fighter.Later in 2010 we signed Preliminary Design agreement where it was decided the PMF would be based on T-50 prototype.Another agreement will be signed this year that will freeze the two seater Design.

    so we will get Single seater fighter's directly from production in Russia and Induct them in IAF in this decade itself.
     
  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    There are 2 problems, once it is still unclear if we go for single seaters at all the 166 x single seater idea was fowarded by the media but not officially by IAF or MoD. If we wanted single seaters, we would have gone for a real co-development from the start, but that wasn't the case, we will join the twin seat development, which also will have some custom changes. If we now go for the single seater, that purely will be developed by Russia, where is the gain for HAL and for all the money we spend?
    Secondly, it is also unclear what config the early Pak Fa will have, that the Russians want to induct in 2015. The engine might still be the S117, while they asked us to fund the development of the real AL 41 NG engine. The IRST and MAWS systems are taken from Su 35/Su 34 currently and have no real stealth shaping, only a special coating like the cockpit will get too and I expect the Russians to prefer rounded 3D TVC also similar to Su 35, while IAF might prefer a similar config like the F22 has. So even if IAF wants single seaters, it doesn't mean that they would accept the technical capabilities of the Russian version.
     
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