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India begins talks for French Jaguar fighters!!!

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Som Thomas, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. Som Thomas

    Som Thomas 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    http://www.defensenews.com/articles/india-begins-talks-for-french-jaguar-fighters


    India begins talks for French Jaguar fighters
    by Paige Williams

    NEW DELHI — India has begun discreet negotiations with France for the purchase of 31 grounded strike fighters previously used by the French Air Force.

    The French government made the offer of sale for the Jaguar fighters about six months ago, and India is actively pursuing the opportunity, according to a top Indian Ministry of Defence official.

    The offer will be actively discussed during an official visit to France July 17-20 of India's Air Force chief, Air Chief Marshal Birender Singh Dhanoa, the MoD official noted.

    The government official refused to comment on the price offered by France for the Jaguar fighters, but did say India is actively considering acquiring them after proper refurbishment.

    During his visit, Dhanoa will inspect the license production of Rafale aircraft for India at Dassault Aviation manufacturing facilities and will fly a sortie in a Rafale aircraft.

    The two countries signed a €7.8 billion (U.S. $8.9 billion) intergovernmental agreement on Sept. 23, 2016, under which 36 Rafale fighter aircraft in fly-away condition will be procured from Dassault Aviation for the Indian Air Force.

    Per the contract, France will invest 30 percent of the €7.8 billion in India's military aeronautics-related research programs and 20 percent into the local production of Rafale components to fulfill the mandatory offsets under the deal.

    India will receive the first six Rafale aircrafts in September 2019, and delivery of all 36 fighters will be completed by the end of 2022. Dassault Aviation will also make specific changes for India and mount new-generation Meteor and Scalp missiles.

    Negotiations for the Rafale deal began immediately after Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced in April 2015 in Paris his wish to buy the fighters for the Indian Air Force in fly-away condition.

    Of the €7.8 billion, the platform costs approximately €3.42 billion; another €1.8 billion is for infrastructure and support supplies; €1.7 billion will be spent to meet India-specific changes to the aircraft; €710 million is for the additional weapons package; and €353 million is the cost of performance-based logistics support.

    Meanwhile, India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is undertaking the modernization process of Jaguar DARIN III twin-seat aircraft. So far, three upgraded Jaguar DARIN III prototypes have been developed and about 60 Jaguar aircraft will be modernized in three years' time, which will give operational life to the aircraft for another 20 years.

    HAL has built 120 Jaguar deep-penetration strike aircraft under technology transfer from BAE Systems of the United Kingdom.

    About a decade ago, India was negotiating the purchase of 12 used Mirage 2000-5 aircraft from Qatar and 40 Mirage 2000 variants including Mirage 2000-9 from the United Arab Emirates, but negotiations failed over the price.
     
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  2. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The article on purchase of grounded jaguars focuses least on jaguar deal and more on rafales
     
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  3. Zer0reZ

    Zer0reZ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    France is currently in negotiations with the Indian Air Force for the sale of about 30 Jaguar that belonged to the French Air Force before their withdrawal in July 2005.

    These airframes will not be used for active service but for spare parts which will be used for fully operationalizing the upgraded fleet of Jaguar IM/IS and Jaguar IB and to maintain sufficient spares in the inventory.

    Currently, IAF has a fleet of 130 Jaguars for operational missions and 30 Jaguar IB trainers. Approximately 60 of these Jaguars will be modified to DARIN III standards, the rest remaining at DARIN II standard until they're retired.

    Source - Defens-Aero
     
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  4. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    France could give 31 Jaguar planes to India
    Paris would have proposed to New Delhi to offer to him of old apparatuses of attack on the ground in the hope of obtaining a new command of Rafale.
    BY GUERRIC PONCET
    Published on 19/07/2017 with 13:10 | The Point.fr
    [​IMG]
    A French Jaguar on a mission over the Adriatic. Photo archive. © TSGT MIKE BUYTAS, USA / Digital / TSGT MIKE BUYTAS, USAF
    • Paris and New Delhi would be in negotiations for the donation of Jaguar ground attack aircraft, designed in the 1960s and retired by the French Air Force in 2005. According to the Defense News website , "Very discreet discussions" are underway: they would cover 31 devices currently under cocoon (and likely in poor condition) in Chateaudun (Eure-et-Loir). This would allow the Indian Air Force, the last to use this aircraft in the world, to consolidate its current fleet of 105 aging aircraft by recovering spare parts on French aircraft.

      The Jaguar thus returned to flight condition will not replace the additional Rafale that the Indian army claims to its government (which ordered "only" 36 ), but they would limit the damage pending a decision.

      "Discussions are not about a sale"
      Vivek Raghuvanshi, head of Defense News's office in India , told us that "the offer was made directly by Emmanuel Macron on 3 June, Indian manager "and that" the discussions are not about a sale, but about a gift of these devices "... which are not worth any more. In mid-July, the American company Atac bought 63 Mirage F1 inFrance for 21 million euros, in order to use them for the training of the US Air Force.Retired from service in 2014, these Mirage F1 are in much better condition than the Jaguar, put under cocoon 12 years ago, and yet worth "only" 300,000 euros each. The calculation of the Elysee, if the gift is proven, had to be ended ...

      The commander of the Indian Air Force, Air Chief Marshal Birender Singh Dhanoa, is on an official visit to Paris from 17 to 20 July, and is expected to discuss the matter with the French authorities. Vivek Raghuvanshi believes that "the discussions are progressing fast": an Indian delegation bringing together military and industrial must, he said, go to Chateaudun in mid-August "to inspect the aircraft."

      Toward a second Rafale command?
      If a donation seems incongruous in the armaments sector, the agreement with India on the Jaguar would be win-win: on the Indian side, the army could give a second breath to its old apparatuses that will have to last longer provided that. And on the French side, the air force would get rid of planes that would not survive for a long time under their cocoon, and the government would score points with the Indians, which Dassault hopes they will pass a second order of Rafale very soon. Experts evoke 18 new Rafale aircraft, despite much higher requirements: in 2016, the previous Air Chief Marshalestimated that India needed 200 Rafale aircraft to secure its operational contract and to arm 42 fighter squadrons.

      Even without a Rafale command, Emmanuel Macron has an interest in pampering the Indian military: contracts with French industrialists are numerous, for sale and maintenance of equipment, with the modernization of the Indian Mirage 2000 for example.

      A well-known Indian plane
      If the Jaguar donation does take place, India may resort to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for the purpose of carving up the Jaguar convicted and for rehabilitating and maintaining the Jaguars to fly. The Indian manufacturer had manufactured about 100 licensed Jaguars (from BAE Systems), and is also responsible for the huge Jaguar modernization project already in operation in India. The DARIN III program envisages that some sixty of these aircraft will have to be brought to a new standard within three years, in order to extend their service life to 2030 or 2035.

      Contacted by us on Tuesday morning, the French and Indian authorities and armies had not responded to our requests on Wednesday morning. Dassault did not want to comment.

      Developed jointly by the United Kingdom (BAC, then BAE) and France (Bréguet then Dassault) via the joint venture Sepecat, the Jaguar has long been the beast of burden of the Air Force and the Royal Air Force, Leading numerous raids during the Gulf War or in Bosnia, for example.
    https://translate.google.fr/transla...-l-inde-19-07-2017-2144251_24.php&prev=search
     
  5. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Another nail in the coffin of Tejas.

    A good replacement for the fast retiring Mig 27's
     
  6. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Please read the post carefully. They are for parting out for spares.
     
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  7. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Dude , these jaguars will not be intended for active services.
    These all 31 Airframes will only be used for spares.
    Please don't always push us to call you a Retard.
     
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  8. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  9. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Jaguars will be imported and upgraded to DARIN III standard as the other 150 Jaguars were.

    We have full manufacturing capability for Jaguar spares and parts.

    Who is the retard now ?
     
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  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    jai-Italji was always in favour of buying second hand M2Ks. Let us see how things work out. There are some talks and also movement in that direction.
     
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  11. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Huh,
    There are many parts like landing gears , engines , radars, and many other avionics are still not manufactured in India.
    The upgradation cost of DARIN-III is itself very high that's why IAF decided to Upgrade only 60 jets to DARIN-III.

    There are a few consumable items which can be used from french Airframes as they are not that much used (airborne).
    If we bought all 31 grounded jets , than surely they will be used as the supply of spares.

    Don't be in fantasies and decide your retardness level
    :biggthumpup:
     
  12. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Yeah it's quite clear:
    "Contacted by Le Point.fr, the chief of the Defense News office in India, Vivek Raghuvanshi, assured us that 'the offer was made directly by Emmanuel Macron, this June 3rd, to a highly-ranked Indian official' and that 'discussions are not about a sale, but a donation of these aircraft'. This information was confirmed to us by a high-ranked French military source: it is indeed a donation."
     
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  13. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    This article saying donate is intended to scuttle this deal.

    Modi Govt and IAF has too much pride and ego to actually accept such hand me downs.

    Even if France is not charging a fly away cost the article should mention India will upgrade to DARIN III standard and French parts will be procured from France and payments will be made for the same.
     
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  14. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    India does not take donations anymore. This part is really in bad taste.
     
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  15. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Exactly it portrays us as a nation of beggars and thus snake charmers and what not other nonsense.

    We have moved on from it.

    I understand these Jaguars have no use for France and India should at least pay a $100k a pop and have that 100% offset into Indian defence industry.

    This article says negotiations and deals and talks are ongoing about a donation.

    What do you negotiate in a donation ?
    Things such as who will pay for fuel for journey from France to India ?

    Some bullshit in the article
     
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