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India can make world’s cheapest N-reactors

Discussion in 'World Economy' started by kaku, May 1, 2012.

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  1. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    Mumbai: Now, India can build cheaper nuclear reactors, than even South Korea. Talking to TOI on the eve of his retirement, Dr Srikumar Banerjee, secretary in the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), said India can now manufacture nuclear reactors at $1,700 per unit. Come May, Banerjee will make way for Ratan Sinha, currently director of Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, who will take over as secretary, DAE.
    “We are now the world’s most economical manufacturer of nuclear reactors. Our cost per unit, of $1,700 (for a 700mw reactor) is substantially less than our nearest competitors. The average international cost is now between $2,500 and $3,000 (for a 1,000mw reactor). South Korea demonstrated its ability to build nuclear reactors for less when it wrested a massive reactor deal for the UAE from French giant, Areva, a couple of years ago.
    With the stir in Kudankulam piping down, Banerjee said DAE was waiting for some clearances from the Atomic Energy Regulatory Board to start Kudankulam-1.
    The AERB will have to conduct a robotic inspection of the pressure vessel in the Kudankulam plant. This is done after what they call the “hot runâ€, which is a kind of a rehearsal but without nuclear fuel. “After this, they open the cap of the pressure vessel to do a robotic inspection. Only after clearing this inspection are we allowed to put in nuclear fuel,†said Banerjee.
    The DAE chief said he was looking at Kudankulam going “critical†by mid-June. “The approach to criticality should happen around that time,†he said. Six months down the line, Banerjee said the DAE hopes to commission the second Kudankulam plant.
    Indian companies manufacturing components and systems for nuclear reactors, Banerjee said, can now do the same work for much less cost. For instance, he said, L&T, which supplies many critical components for the Indian nuclear and defence sectors, can make the large reactor vessel in their new Hazira plant.
    This is something of an achievement because it’s traditionally been the preserve of the Japanese. Banerjee was clear that the despite Fukushima, India will have a high demand for nuclear energy.
    “In the months after Fukushima, we have received expressions of interest from Haryana, Rajasthan and MP to set up nuclear powerplants. We will do all of them,†asserted DAE chief.


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  2. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    So we can Produce more power with LOw cost...

    Thank God That makes down the Power cut in Tamil Nadu



    Is any Idea to Build Reactor in other Countries...I think we should Place some Nuclear Reactor in Vietnam
     
  3. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    No, we should place this reactor is our country first.
     
  4. Marqueur

    Marqueur Peaceful Silence ELITE MEMBER

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    Y specifically in Vietnam ... there r other countries also ... :evilgrin:
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  5. olivers

    olivers 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    If we are making reactors which are the cheapest in the entire world. Why are we paying millions to foreign firms? It's clear we can't meet out own demand at these lower costs. Maybe we can increase the production rate of these reactors instead of making these statements every few years. There is also the industrial scale enrichment issue for fuel. Laser enrichment is a reality in us where GE has the process now. They claim it's extremely economical and can supply 50 to 100 reactors. Hope we move towards production laser enrichment and we have a break through in this area. Our domestic nuclear industry was held back by fuel problems now what's the excuse? Enrichment problems? The atomic establishment has to do what DRDO has done with public private partnerships and enhance our ability to convert individual reactor successes into serial production successes.
     
  6. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    Thank God That makes down the Power cut in Tamil Nadu
    Tamil nadu is actually self sufficient in power, during the reign of DMK,
    What DMK govt did is
    a) Sold electricity to neighbouring states,
    b) Purchased cheap quality coal at same price (which includes kick backs) and so automatically the electricity produced is less but demand is increasing and they have sold some to neighbouring states.

    Before DMK came to power, there were less power cuts, if i am not mistaken before DMK came to power coal used was 6300 Kcal standard, after DMK came to power they used 5400 kcal coal which actually is much cheaper and less energy per kg. :)
     
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  7. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    Why not try to make Thorium reactors,
    a) we have one of the biggest reserve of thorium.
    b) Thorium is cheaper and safer.
    c) Thorium cannot be used to make nuclear weapons

    Also there are many ways to make electricity, as I said the leaders lack vision, there is wave energy, wind energy, Solar.. you name it
     
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  8. jamesvaikom

    jamesvaikom FULL MEMBER

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    We should give more importance to fast breeder reactor and advanced heavy-water thorium cycle than to make cheapest N-reactors.
     
  9. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    i agree we should go for those means which are already available in our country.
     
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  10. olivers

    olivers 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Well Thorium based reactors are our energy sufficiency vision. We have a three stage program. The Fast breeder reactor was supposed to breed Plutonium 239 and uranium 233. It uses a MOX fuel with Plutonium 239 which is re-processed from pressurized heavy water reactor spent fuel and natural uranium. Once we have sufficient Plutonium 239 being bread in the reactor we feed thorium which is converted into Uranium 233.

    Once we have enough Uranium 233 from this second stage which is stored and purified we move to stage three, where we use this in Stage III reactors along with thorium. It's self sustaining except for the initial Uranium 233 required. We have the first stage in commercial operation, the second and third stage in experimental with the first Fast breeder coming online in 2012. As you can see this whole chain takes a long lead time.

    Only when you have sufficient first stage material in the form of Plutonium 239 can you goto second stage and then once you get to the second stage you need to build up enough Uranium 233 to move to to Uranium 233 + thorium which is self sustaining after the first load. Then the reactor works only on thorium. We need only Uranium 233 which isn't available in sufficient quantity in the natural uranium.

    This is where India got backstabbed. People warned MMS against signing the nuclear deal. In 2011 the same clean waiver India got was modified and they denied India enrichment technology. So the nuclear deal is a dud. The real benefit we were looking to was to have commercial enrichment plants set up under safeguards. Our military enrichment plants are being expanded and they are sufficient for our requirements. Imagine having two facilities which most billions of dollars and the private sector which wants to put up reactors in India won't invest in. This was the problem we faced.

    India wanted to move to absolute energy security and run fast. MMS was warned not to be so short sighted. No country will allow us to do that. He was lead to believe we can buy all the spent fuel which is being stored in countries for thousands of years to kick start our third stage!!! Now the real funny fact is it costs a lot of money to store the nuclear waste for France, USA, Japan and Russia. We just need a part of this spent fuel u-233 to be brought to India under full safeguards. Processed in Indian re-processing facilities under full safeguard. (We expected these re-processing plants to be imported to speed up the process given our focus is on our military facilities for now.) All of these again under full safeguards to feed the third stage start up!

    We expected thorium reactors to be running the country within the next 20 years!!!

    But all is not lost yet. We have another ace up or sleeve. Use AHWR to kick start the third stage.
    Advanced heavy water reactor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This reactor will be used in parallel and in series with our previous two stages to get into direct thorium utilization mode. We are weak in gauging the intentions and MMS was adamant in 2009. It's sad but he is just the worst sarkari officer we need to get rid of. He has done a lot of harm to India. People just look at degree tags and think a degree tag means he knows everything. He has done more harm to Indian economy in the past 8 years than the combined good he did in 1991. The 1991 was all narashimha rao, this guy was the puppet face.


    India's three stage nuclear power programme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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  11. olivers

    olivers 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Please note that this AHWR was supposed to come up 3 years earlier. We were distracted by the nuclear deal. It was considered more expensive, the government was dilly dallying around this issue. After the back stab in 2011, notice the difference.

    We brought our AP nuclear fuel facility online. The AHWR is going to be fast tracked and is being build within 18 months. The FBR program is being fast tracked to 5 reactors with a substitute fuel core with a breeding ratio higher than 0.1. With 0.1 it will take 10 years to breed fuel.

    We moved our civilian reactors to foreign fuel rapidly and they are operating at very high efficiency levels freeing up more uranium for the Fast Breeder reactor and subsequent third stage. We have also decided that since we have been back stabbed, we will use the agreement to the fullest to shorten the lead time from 30 years to 10 years. Once this lead time is gone by around 2018 to 2020 India will be energy sufficient without imports. Once we reach that stage we will be a world power. We should not be scuttled by these nuclear deal types like MMS was swayed. He should go before we have fast progress. This is our dirty little secret, energy security to make us a stronger country and immune from external threat. This was also why US was keen to sign the deal and limit us and tie us into the Global growth and prevent autonomy. MMS is the worst prime minister we have ever seen.
     
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  12. satz

    satz Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    ^^^
    To Oliver:

    Aussies and Russians are willing to sell Uranium to us. More over we have required low grade Uranium in india for the intial stage. The Nuclear deal helped us to get the Uranium and reprocessing tech from Russia and France.

    Wht's wrong in signing N-deal ?
     
  13. olivers

    olivers 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article2156230.ece

    Kakodkar calls NSG guidelines betrayal, Yashwant says PM misled Parliament - Economic Times

    Anil Kakodkar is upset. He was the chief negotiator during the deal. Anil Kakodkar warned the government for six months before going out in the open. MMS was running too fast. Remember the trust vote ? MMS wanted this at all costs. Whenever I see him I think of this betrayal. He is the PM who sold us out.

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2347279.ece

    The congress put a spin on this back stab and is spreading rumors through the paid media that France and Russia are ready to give us ENR technology for civil sector. Read the rebuttal in Hindu below. We are more restrained with the deal than without it. The sooner Congress is thrown out the better our chances of becoming independent and one of the strongest countries in the world. On the flip side it's good as we can go ahead with our nuclear tests.

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2151381.ece
    http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2816/stories/20110812281611900.htm

    The way I see it is that BARC is trying to use the deal to race towards the self sufficiency window. The more time it takes for all the liability issues to be worked out the better it is. Slow down the investments by foreign plants and we will have reversed the backstab through self sufficiency speedup. If our present power plants can be sustained for a few more years on imported fuel we can hit the ground running towards Thorium. Once thorium process is booted up we can even discard stage one reactors. The governments support to this sufficiency vision is crucial.

    India is also looking at direct Thorium technologies without the three stages.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
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  14. satz

    satz Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    i believe Russia and france are willing to co-operate and transer any tech to india. they are not back stabbers like U.S

    I hope india will be self sufficient in future for power needs.
     
  15. olivers

    olivers 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Nope. They went back on their offer. Russia never offered. France says it's will abide by what was signed. There is no talk about the presidential pledge on ENR. This means no ENR as the agreements with France and Russia don't have ENR in them on paper. Unless there is some other secret arrangement we don't have it. Russia passed an internal legislation even before our nuclear deal with us on ENR. It's against Russian law to export ENR. So it's chakravuh like the son of Arjun getting stuck. MMS was like that only adament and greedy instead of noble like Arjun's son.
     
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