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India eyes Russian S-400 Triumf + associated news

Discussion in 'Indian Military Doctrine' started by arulcharles, Oct 11, 2015.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Both S-400 and Phase 1 BMD are similar. At best the S-400 may have better missiles due to Russian superiority in this field.

    From Wiki but it is most probably right.
    S-400
    40N6
    The 40N6 very long range missile is capable of destroying airborne targets at ranges up to 400 km (250 mi). Active radar homing head. (expected in 2012)[35] To engage targets out of sight from the ground (for homing missile can) is designed to find the target.[26] System S - 400 can hit targets at a height of 185 km.

    Indian BMD
    The PDV is designed to take out the target missile at altitudes above 150 km (93 mi).

    S-400
    The 9M96E medium range missile (40 km), flying altitude 20 km
    The 9M96E2[37] extended range missile is capable of destroying airborne targets at ranges up to 120 km (75 mi), flying altitude 5 m to 30 km.

    Indian BMD
    Advanced Air Defence (AAD) is an anti-ballistic missile designed to intercept incoming ballistic missiles in the endo-atmosphere at an altitude of 30 km (19 mi).

    Only this missile is unique to S-400.
    The 48N6DM long range missile is capable of destroying airborne targets at ranges up to 250 km.


    The missiles are very similar in altitude and range, speed and weight should be Russian advantages.

    I can only think of 3 cases for why IAF wants to import the S-400-
    1: Phase I Indian BMD is inferior to the S-400.

    2: Phase I Indian BMD must have seen technical problems and delayed inductions.

    3: Stop gap because of unforeseen delays in manufacturing.
     
  2. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    S-500 is set to use the same missiles as S-400. Radars will be new. Maybe a new missile for ICBM interception.

    You are confused between S-300/350 with S-400/500. I have listed the names of missiles and their capabilities with respect to Indian Phase I BMD.

    The earlier S-400 systems for Russia is superior to what's been offered for export. You are talking about S-300.
     
  3. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    no i am not rather you are

    the max altitude of interception is for aerial target not for Ballistic missiles .aerial target includes UAV/planes basically

    it's maximum altitude of BM interception lies between 60/70km

    [​IMG]
    http://marshall.org/wp-content/uplo...ents-in-Russias-Ballistic-Missile-Defense.pdf

    CHEERS
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    There is a planned three tier BMD defence for our major cities and whole of India starting from Iron dome to S-300/400 to DRDO developed AMD. few parts of DRDO AMD are already operational around Delhi and Mumbai. Bangalore and Hyderabad are under installation.
    PAF has acquired RAAD missiles and that means that any intruding aircraft needs to be intercepted well before it can fire a missile which can break this shield. So the interceptions have to now take place at much larger distances than what was the norm till date. Now we have to prevent the launch itself, forget about the platform.
     
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  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Bro you should read more about the S-400. The para you quoted doesn't have the 40N6 in it. It talks about 48N6 and 9M96. 48N6 and 9M96 are primarily for AD role with 48N6 with partial BMD role, it has an altitude capability of 60Km similar to PAD. These are are primarily for S-300.

    40N6 has 400Km range and 185Km altitude like PDV. This missile is what makes the S-400 fully BMD capable.

    India eyes Russian S-400 Triumf | Page 2 | Indian Defence Forum

    Indian BMD is the same, but I think S-400 can shoot down faster targets making it superior in BMD role.

    S-300 and S-350 have AD role with partial BMD capability, while S-400 has AD and full BMD role against IRBM targets. S-500 has AD and BMD role with ICBM stopping capability.
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    India's current account deficit down to 1.3% of GDP: Jaitley - The Times of India

    India's GDP Can Double in 3 Years: Railway Minister Suresh Prabhu
    What the railway minister says makes sense. Especially when the transport sector plans to add two more percentage points to growth in 2 years.
    Road transport, shipping sector will boost GDP growth in two years, says Gadkari | Business Standard News
    Interesting times ahead for India.

    All this talk of no money is just politics. This govt's been doing really well as far as economy is concerned.
     
    kiduva21 likes this.
  7. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It shows that you always exagerated your performance: you need more than 20% growth/year to double your GDP in 3.5 years.
     
  8. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    exactly

    i was going to state that part .But you stated that before me.Nice!!

    CHEERS
     
  9. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    this missile what you are claiming is going to be armed with S 500 basically . later S400 model is stated to have that missile which can also be used in
    S 500.

    till now this missile is yet to be used in S400 .

    basically 2 versions are being developed 77N6-N and 77N6-N1 .

    BTW check the last part of wiki source it itself states S 500 as genuine ABM & S 400 as long range SAM

    CHEERS
     
  10. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Almaz-Antey 40R6 / S-400 Triumf / SA-21 SAM System /Самоходный Зенитный Ракетный Комплекс 40Р6 / С-400 'Триумф'
    If S-400 is not BMD capable, then neither is the Indian phase 1 BMD.

    This is documentation from stratfor released by wikileaks.
    The Global Intelligence Files - RUSSIA/MIL - Third regiment set of S-400 system to be supplied to RF Far East
    Also this-
    Russian S-300 missile systems capable of targeting near space 'enter service' — RT News
    Only missiles operate in that region. And only missiles fly at 4.8Km/s in that place.

    This is about Indian BMD.
    Interceptor missile tested 7 times, DRDO’s Rajinikanth moment still far | The Indian Express
    So while the S-400 can stop missiles from 3500Km away, Indian BMD can do that only from 2000Km away.
    S-300 can stop missiles from 2000Km away, like the Indian BMD.

    Indian Phase II BMD is a bit different.
    Ballistic Missile Defence System for India » Indian Defence Review
    Whereas, Russian S-500 is a step higher. From RT article.
    So the S-500 is meant to stop everything to do with missiles. The Russians classify this as full BMD capability against ICBMs because that's the threat they face, not from IRBMs like India. That's why S-400 is not a full BMD system for Russia, and in an operational sense it is an AD system. But not for India.

    Document from fas.org. It is a US Senate report on the S-400.
    http://fas.org/spp/starwars/congress/1999_h/s106-339-5.htm
    Apart from the obvious specifications of the missiles, this document proves beyond a doubt that the S-400 is BMD.

    This statement in particular is more important.
    The S-400 like the Indian Phase 1 BMD is classified as theater BMD while S-500 is a strategic BMD.
     
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  11. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    @:dude:

    40N6 is going to be inducted this year perhaps or 2016 but russian media claims it going to be mass produced .

    How authentic that claim i cant say .

    but what i have stated before is according to operational standards only . which claims to have max height of interception of 60km

    CHEERS
     
  12. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    40N6 has been available since 2012.
    Комплексы С-400 получат новую ракету в 2012 году: Наука и техника: Lenta.ru
    You have confused yourself between 'Indian operational standards' and 'Russian operational standards'.

    What is AD for Russia is BMD for India. That's because the biggest threat to Russia is ICBMs which the S-400 cannot stop. The biggest threat to India is IRBMs which both Indian BMD and S-400 can stop.

    The first phase of our BMD and Russian BMD are very similar. With PAD we can stop <2000Km missiles. With PDV we should be able to stop <3000Km missiles similar to 40N6. AAD should be able to stop <2000Km missiles. IAF is also inducting Akash and Barak for shorter range needs. DRDO is also developing Ashvin missile for AD.

    For IAF, the function of S-400 will be BMD, no different from Indian Phase 1 BMD. The question I am asking is why we need the S-400 when we have an equivalent system in place. Even if we want it for AD only, AAD and PAD are more than enough. Both have similar specs as 48N6 and 9M96. And by the time we order and get the S-400s, even Phase 2 Indian BMD will be ready, expected to be ready in 2016.
     
  13. abhitej

    abhitej Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    There is no agreement signed. Only intent shown.
     
  14. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    that quoted part of your post is wrong
    recently from end of 2014 only it was decided to mass produce it .
    check your own sources before you would get that part

    i didnt find any legititmate russian government claims of BM target interception of 40N6 at at altitudes of 180km .
    only media claims .

    60km altitude BM target interception is authenticated at this moment



    one reason is already cited by Vstol regarding RAAD

    other reason might be urgency of requirement

    mobilty of these SAM to be deployed in border areas meanwhile AAD /PAD for cities

    plus chinese have alrady ordered S 400 , india wants similiar capabilty in it's Air defence .

    other reasons might also be there , i have just stated few.



    CHEERS
     
  15. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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