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India eyes Russian S-400 Triumf + associated news

Discussion in 'Indian Military Doctrine' started by arulcharles, Oct 11, 2015.

  1. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Never heard of anything called a P-76. There is only one concrete agreement in place, and that is the P-75 (Scorpene/Kalvari) under which 6 boats are already being built and an additional 2-3 are being discussed, and the only other diesel-electric submarine procurement in sights in the P-75i, which is meant to be for another 6 boats.

    If we're smart, we'll club the requirements together and ensure that the next 6 SSKs to come will just be an improved Scorpene-class with AIP. That will save a massive amount of money & time, which we'd otherwise have spent learning to build & operate an entirely new submarine-class, like the Amur or U214.

    As far as I know, there is no real indigenous SSK project anymore. I remember seeing L&T display a model for what it claimed to be it's idea of an SSK design...I can't seem to recall anything coming off it. And that was years ago. @PARIKRAMA Please tell if you're in the know of any such Indian-designed SSK concept in existence/consideration.

    With the recent deal during Putin's visit, the total number climbs to 10. This new Batch-3 brings a notable improvement - the SAM system is now the VLS-launched 9M317ME instead of the arm-launcher types used on the previous 6 frigates (Batch-1/2). This means reaction times will be much improved, salvo-firing capability against inbound threats will be available. A welcome decision.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    You know what's better? 6 Barracudas as SSKs and 6 Barracudas as SSN with our own reactor.

    Then we can progress onto our own designs after having built these 12 subs. In the meantime, they should add 3 more Scorpenes to the current line.
     
  3. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Isn't DCNS under some kind of agreement with Australia that they will not supply a Barracuda SSK (Shortfin) to any other operator in the region? I didn't read much into it, so do let me know if things aren't as I see them.
     
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    I don't know about that. But I doubt the Australians can force the French to do that.
     
  5. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Only the pump jet propulsion technology shouldn't be shared with any other parties
     
  6. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    A top Navy officer told ET that the government has cleared the project on the condition that all future acquisitions of conventional submarines will be based on an indigenous design and produced at Indian shipyards. The Navy has accordingly initiated a futuristic design plan even though the next batch of conventional submarines under Project 76 would take several more years before a firm order is placed..

    Read more at:
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

    Sources close to the development said L&T is in talks with a couple of foreign firms to develop required expertise to participate in the Indian Navy’s prestigious Project 75 and 76 to make underwater vessels.

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...es-for-navy/story-Oyri06Db91vX16Vuxt4e1I.html

    Project 76 was given go ahead after this govt came in power. The plan is to make SSKs simultaneously from two shipyards. Navy will have 20 or more SSKs by 2030.
     
  7. Inactive

    Inactive Guest


    Beyond.
     
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  8. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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    Blast from the past

    Sandeep Unnithan reported this way back.. 1996

    upload_2016-10-18_10-32-7.png

    zoomed version
    upload_2016-10-18_10-35-4.png upload_2016-10-18_10-36-0.png
    upload_2016-10-18_10-36-50.png

    Sandeep says acquisition was not completed.. many Russian sources says India did buy.. ambiguity totally..
     
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  9. Inactive

    Inactive Guest

    @PARIKRAMA

    Little birdie says S-300 are in inventory for Delhi. No idea. Have not seen the actual site .. but there was a photograph of some sort of vehicle of it's component floating on internet. Too lazy to look it up.
     
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  10. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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  11. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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    [​IMG]


    Operators India published b RIA Novosti 2008... much much earlier than todays timeline..


    upload_2016-10-19_21-41-16.png

    Source: Centre for Land Warfare Studies, Delhi



    Another proof
    [​IMG]

    This infographic came when russia supplied S300 to iran
     
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  12. HariPrasad

    HariPrasad Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    SHOOT AT SIGHT: THE S-400 BOOSTS INDIAN AIR DEFENCE
    FRIDAY, DECEMBER 09, 2016 BY INDIANDEFENSE NEWS

    [​IMG]
    The S-400 air defence system will give India the unprecedented capability of taking out aircraft and missiles while they are still in enemy airspace.

    The year is 2020. A posse of F-16 jet fighters takes off from the main Pakistan Air Force (PAF) base in Sargodha. Approximately 300 km east, at the Adampur air force base, an Indian S-400 air defence system picks up these aircraft almost instantly. The radar lock unnerves the F-16 pilots and they peel further west – away from the battery’s range.

    While taking evasive action the PAF jets have to be careful not to stray into Afghanistan – which is increasingly hostile towards Islamabad – or Iran. The Pakistani pilots, however, realise trespass is the least of their problems. As the F-16s arrive over Balochistan – the furthest they can get away from the Indian border – they are tracked by another S-400 battery stationed near the Jodhpur air force base 527 km away.

    [​IMG]
    The S-400 systems are routinely scanning the airspace around them in a 360 degree sweep, but the PAF pilots are on the verge of panic. Between the overlapping coverage by India’s multiple S-400 battalions stationed along the border, PAF aircraft can run but not hide. This is the fishbowl effect – the feeling of being observed from all sides.
    The most devastating impact of India acquiring the S-400 Triumf will be on the Pakistani military’s psyche. With its 600 km tracking range – and a 400 km kill range – the Russian air defence system will increase the vulnerability of all Pakistani air assets, especially fighter aircraft, missiles and drones, by several orders of magnitude.
    Their 600 km tracking range – and a 400 km kill range – will allow just three S-400 battalions located on the border to cover all of Pakistan, except the western extremity of its restive Balochistan province. With Afghanistan turning hostile and upending Pakistan’s grandiose plans of acquiring strategic depth, the arrival of the S-400 will squeeze the operational capabilities of both its offensive and defensive assets.
    Because of its blistering speed of 17,000 kph, an S-400 missile fired from Adampur, Punjab, will take just 65 seconds to hit an F-16 flying over Sargodha. Ejection – rather than evasive action – would be the sensible option against a missile coming at you at that speed.
    The S-400’s deployment will widen the window of vulnerability of Pakistan’s air force, army and strategic missile forces.

    *First up, PAF jets will be forced to operate hundreds of kilometres west of the Indian border and will have to fly in a narrow strip of airspace along the borders of Iran and Afghanistan.
    *Secondly, they will not be able to come to the defence of their armour and troop concentrations which would be taking a pounding from Indian artillery and the Indian Air Force (IAF).
    *The system can even function as a ballistic missile killer until India’s indigenous Prithvi Air Defence (PAD) comes online in the coming decade.

    Manufactured by Russia’s Almaz Antey and introduced into service in 2007, the S-400 system consists of a set of radars, missile launchers and command posts. Each S-400 system is capable of tracking between 100 and 300 targets. It can engage up to 36 targets simultaneously within a range of 400 km, ensuring that all Pakistani air bases come under its range. Chinese air assets in Tibet will also come within striking distance. The S-400’s offensive-defence capability means IAF aircraft won’t have to undertake overly risky strike missions into enemy airspace until it is sanitised.
    (China has also purchased the S-400 system, the first foreign country to confirm orders for four systems: Ed.)
    Why India needs battlefield defence systems
    [​IMG]
    The equally potent S-300 is the earlier version of the S-400 Air Defense System

    Air defence is a critical aspect of war. If the enemy is able to penetrate your airspace, his first targets are high value military and industrial establishments like airfields, cantonments and power plants, as well as transport networks.
    Because of India’s vast landmass, the IAF cannot be at all places at all times. The long range of the S-400’s powerful AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar fills these gaps. The S-400 missile system can even take out aircraft with low-observable technology. “For the S-400 there is no such thing as ‘stealth’ aircraft; the system will see it and will shoot it down,” an S-400 battery commander was quoted as saying in the Russian media.
    The S-400 can “see” everything both in the air and on the ground, and can easily discern even a tiny aircraft from, say, a truck moving on the ground, the commander added. “Even if a plane is flying low and with the same speed as a vehicle moving on the ground, the radar will show it on the screen.”
    Integrated Missile Defense
    [​IMG]
    While the S-400 is clearly one of the most capable and lethal long-range air defence missile systems on the planet, air defence works best when all its components operate in sync. The Triumf becomes deadlier if it is used alongside short and medium range missiles, anti-aircraft artillery (AAA) and fighter aircraft. By dominating high altitude air space (up to 185 km), the S-400 can drive enemy aircraft down into a “flak trap” where AAA batteries and air defence fighters await them. If India can successfully integrate this multi-tier system, it can significantly increase the costs for attacking air forces.
    Counter Measures
    [​IMG]
    Of the five systems ordered, India could deploy three on the Pakistan border and two along the Himalayas to counter China. However, it is Pakistan that will suffer the most as its entire territory will be swept by the S-400’s jamming resistant radar. Since the PAF’s offensive and defensive assets are thin, Pakistan could try and overwhelm Indian air defence systems by launching a large number of missiles of which it has plenty. However, this could be suicidal as it will invite a massive retaliation from India’s strategic command.
    The entry of the S-400 will force Pakistan to spend heavily on more numbers of aircraft and missiles – including prohibitively expensive hypersonic ones – needed to neutralise the huge Indian advantage. Given the Pakistani military’s obsessive desire to achieve parity with India, it may even acquire the HQ-9 – the Chinese knockoff of the older Russian S-300 system.
    With the Pakistani economy not exactly in the pink of health, the additional spending will come at the expense of economic growth needed to employ, feed and house its growing population. Disenchantment with the government’s policies will set in motion the kind of disaffection which led to the country’s breakup in 1971 and the creation of Bangladesh.
    India’s Next Move
    The S-400 may seem like a stopgap arrangement until the PAD system attains maturity. However, the Russian weapon is likely to remain as a backup in case PAD gets delayed. Considering India’s history of defence production, delays are inevitable. India should, therefore, explore the possibility of producing the S-400 locally and also take first dibs on the futuristic S-500 Prometheus – yet another frightening air defence weapon from Russia.
    Source>>

    http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/12/shoot-at-sight-s-400-boosts-indian-air.html
     
  13. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Pad was TD so is PDV in its present shape. It is Bulky and hence do slow take off. Only new AD series of missiles will be the real deal for exo kills and those will require new types of LRTRs and space based assets DRDO has yet to unveil its 1500-2000km LRTR-2 whih it promised 7 years ago.
     
  14. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Wow, so this is basically air superiority without a shot fired? That's insane. I was wondering earlier why we were buying only 5, and using 3 of them on the Pakistani border, but man, we practically would own the skies over Pakistan once these arrive.
     
  15. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    All 5 systems will be dedicated to protecting Delhi. It's because of Delhi's proximity to China. Delhi needs protection from TBMs that can be fired from Tibet.

    For the border et al, we are developing our own long range systems.
     

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