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India eyes Russian S-400 Triumf + associated news

Discussion in 'Indian Military Doctrine' started by arulcharles, Oct 11, 2015.

  1. venureddy

    venureddy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    but i guess it would be possible in the future ships which will get bigger i hope and i guess it will be possible to have some of these on our p-15 destroyers!! vstols answer could be helpful here.
     
  2. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    @venureddy

    Not really...destroyers/frigates will have basically two types of SAMs : one is self-defence the other is area/group defence. Neither type can
    do both roles equally effectively - if there is one missile within our grasp that achieves some balance, it's the Barak-8.
    As @randomradio said 8ER should be able to fulfill the latter role more effectively.

    Obviously a missile with 90/120km range (and I guess ~30km apogee?) cannot be used a proper BMD tool. If we're actually looking for a
    ship-based ABM shield, we're better off siphoning something from our own 3-stage BMD program. Any missile from the S400 group doesn't
    seem to fit anywhere. Either way I'm not buying into the whole carrier-killer DF-21D crap.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    @randomradio Hey dude, now that Barak-8 seems to have achieved more than anticipated range (90km compared to planned 70km)...I'd assume
    the 8ER version would have around 140km now? Afterall it doesn't seem anything more than an additional booster strapped on to the basic missile - so everything the basic version has should be retained right?

    Infact I'd think it would be more than 140km.

    LR-SAM gets Improved range in its current configuration | idrw.org

    Sorry for the crapsite link but the news is everywhere.
     
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  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    You're right. There is potential for an increase in range. Possibly even more by the time it is developed.
     
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  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Yes, it is possible in bigger ships. Like some AEGIS destroyers carry the SM-3 which has a range of 500-1500Km.
     
  6. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    ...making it clearly superior to the Aster family in possibly every way.
     
  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    It is a real capability. Our Shaurya is something like it but with a lower range.

    It becomes even more of a threat if the warhead is powered with its own engine, a Scramjet.
     
  8. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    No. Barak-8 is restricted to 18Km altitude. Aster II has an altitude of 30Km, like AAD. Aster is almost BMD capable, Barak is not.
     
  9. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    I was going with the aspect of acquiring & maintaining the targets over those distances...and excerpt from PSK's blog...

    I'd think even meters-length radar bands wouldn't have targeting data accurate enough for a precise conventional strike even if they manage to
    spot the carriers at any meaningful range. If they use the missiles with a nuclear/EMP-based warhead, then it's a different story.
     
  10. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Seems I forget about the Aster-II entirely. Was talking only about the Aster-15/30 Block-1s.

    What is the range of the Aster-30 Block-2? The one capable of intercepting IRBM-class missiles?
     
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    It's much simpler than that. It is a lot harder to fire a 110Km missile at a ship than a 2000Km missile that is cued by an aircraft 400Km away from the target.

    The US built the LRASM-A to engage a ship from 1000Km away. Same thing. The kill chain is expanded because the DF-21 will have to be fired a bit later from a silo, rather than an aircraft, but it is 7 times faster than a LRASM-A to make up the difference while the firepower is also many times more.

    The DF-21's job is to kill, just like the LRASM-A. Finding the target is up to other assets and is the same for both sides. The DF-21 most likely has a 10m CEP like Shaurya. It's enough to hit a 100m+ sized ship. Even a proximity detonation will cripple the ship.
     
  12. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    The Block II range, speed and altitude is not know completely, but at least 30Km altitude can be expected.

    What's special about Aster family is the speed. It is at least twice as fast. Even Aster-30 I is capable of BMD, with 20Km altitude.

    Barak-8 is designed for anti-aircraft and CMD defence. Aster is more of an all-rounder.
     
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  13. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Okay so that's implying the 21D works with a man-in-the-loop guidance?

    I assume that cued by aircraft you mean tracking the ship with the onboard FCR/AEW radar and sharing the data over datalink? Can you go
    into some depth on that - I need to know what all external can be required to properly drive the 21D home.

    Not urgent, though. Take it when you have the time...btw you seem to be more active during the night, you living in the West now?
     
  14. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    There are many assets. Special forces led fishermen and seamen with satcom, small and large maritime patrol aircraft, Aewcs, satellites, navy ships, long range OTH radars.

    It's simple. you find the target using other assets. Then you fire the missile and pray it hits. This is the case for any missile not just DF-21. Even a 300Km Brahmos missile in coastal defence needs help.

    The enemy's job is to reduce these surveillance assets asap by blowing them up to survive.

    Classified. :D

    You can check my IP anytime bro.
     
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  15. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Wth I even forgot I have that ability...:eek:
     

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