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India in talks with Germany to upgrade HDW vessel capabilities

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by CONNAN, Apr 9, 2011.

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    Apr 16, 2010
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    New Delhi: With the Scorpene submarine project getting delayed, India is holding talks with Germany to upgrade the capabilities of its HDW underwater vessels.

    Discussions in this regard are being held between the two countries at the ongoing fifth Indo-German Defence Committee meeting here, Navy sources told agency.

    "Our submarine fleet is depleting and numbers are expected to go down with the delay in the Scorpene project.

    The talks are on with German officials to upgrade the existing fleet of four HDW submarines," they said.

    The HDW submarines, also known as Shishumar class in the Indian Navy, were procured from Germany in the mid 80s and the last of it was inducted in 1990-91.

    Under its Project-75, Navy was planning to induct the first Scorpene submarine by 2011 but due to delays on part of MDL and the Navy, the first induction is expected to take place only by late 2015.

    Due to the delays in the project, the Government has decided to upgrade the existing fleet of Russian origin Kilo class and the German vessels.

    A few of the Kilo class submarines have already undergone upgrades in Russia and have been fitted with new weaponry and other superior sensors and systems.

    During the meeting, the two sides will also hold talks to enhance cooperation in anti-piracy operations and patrolling of important sea routes in the pirate-infested areas, sources said.

    The two countries have so far held discussions on enhancing military to military cooperation through joint exercises and training drills.

    India in talks with Germany to upgrade HDW vessel capabilities
  2. Dilemma

    Dilemma Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Aug 6, 2010
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    Din't the 209s undergo a mid-life refit?
  3. Hashu

    Hashu Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

    Oct 16, 2010
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    it's good to keep our options open but if we can build our own nuke sub...then y can't we build our own electic sub!
  4. Tanya the Angel

    Tanya the Angel REGISTERED

    Apr 7, 2011
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  5. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

    Feb 10, 2011
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    Upgrades, mate, they're discussing upgrades. Not purchasing entirely new submarines, they've got enough of those lined up. They just want to keep the 209s going till the Scorpene thing goes through (or till they can find a competitor for the Scorpene). It would take even longer for our defence industry to design and build it's own diesel-electric sub, though I'm sure they can wrangle it.

    Yeah, early in the early 2000s. They're falling behind again, and they've lived beyond the 25 years expected of hulls of their class. Hence the upgrades.
    1 person likes this.
  6. Sanjeeb Bose

    Sanjeeb Bose Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

    Jan 29, 2011
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    One answer to beat the depleting submarine count is buy outright the U-214 submarine the Greece had ordered earlier, but due their economic crisis are looking for a others ready to buy those submarines. Greece has earlier order four German U-214 and one has been delivered already.
  7. Bad Wolf

    Bad Wolf Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Jan 11, 2011
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    so how much they want to upgrade .
    did we have negation problem like mirage-2000 or not ?
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
  8. Wolf 9

    Wolf 9 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Mar 13, 2011
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    German Group Pulls Out of Greek Submarine Order: Minister
    Published: 16 May 2011 13:25 ATHENS - German shipbuilding group HDW has pulled out of a subcontractor deal to build two submarines at an Arab-owned shipyard in Greece, the Greek defense minister said on May 16.

    HDW bowed out due to "major disagreements" on broader project cooperation in Germany between its parent company ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems and Abu Dhabi Mar, the new owners of Hellenic Shipyards near Athens that were to handle the submarine contract, Defence Minister Evangelos Venizelos said .
    The dispute concerns the building of two new 214-class submarines and the overhaul of an older 209-class submarine, Venizelos said in a statement.

    It does not affect the delivery of three more 214-class submarines that have been completed at Hellenic Shipyards, the country's main shipbuilding facility, the minister said.

    The Greek submarine order has been a long-running affair spanning over a decade and dogged by technical disputes, litigation and bribery probes.

    Athens in September oversaw a deal to transfer a majority stake at Hellenic Shipyards, the country's main shipbuilding facility, from ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems to Abu Dhabi Mar in order to protect thousands of jobs.

    The deal had been delayed by Athens' initial refusal to accept delivery of one of the new submarines, Papanikolis, after Greek Navy inspectors declared it defective during test runs off the port of Kiel.

    A former Greek defense minister is currently under parliamentary investigation in Athens over bribes allegedly paid to Greek officials in relation to submarine orders signed in 2002.

    The Greek government, struggling with a debt crisis and facing a huge effort to restructure its ailing economy, has admitted it can ill-afford new arms purchases.

    But in defense of the shipyard deal, Venizelos at the time said the delays "had placed in danger the country's largest shipbuilding industry, thousands of jobs, the entire Greek Navy submarine program and over two billion euros already paid by the Greek state without tangible result."
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