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India to Acquire 2 Million Modern Assault Rifles and Other Small Arms; Kalashnikov in the Hunt

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by SilentSpectator, Nov 24, 2016.

  1. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Fully agree. Need to seriously look at Accuracy International and US makers.

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    Do you think we should expand on the Galil SR/Galatz orders in this category...

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    ...or seek something new? Great number of options out there, like these two based on the AR-10/15 platform.

    Remington R11 RSASS
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    H&K G28
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    Can't say I'm terribly excited about buying from Germany though. You never know when those ultra-pacifists might put us on a blacklist for alleged misuse of their weapons (heard it happened with MP-5s a while back). What with all the pakistani propaganda going on about Indian forces committing horrible violation of human rights against innocent Kashmiris...seriously, f*ck Germany.

    Heard about that...hmph, more endless waiting.

    At one point of time, when someone said .45 SMG, first thing to come to mind was the UMP. But nowadays, we have an attractive option in the KRISS Vector.

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    I'll just post this here as I don't know where it put it exactly (I think neither does the Army)...

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  2. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    Any possibility for buying VHS?
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  3. SilentSpectator

    SilentSpectator FULL MEMBER

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    Looks awesome!!
     
  4. SilentSpectator

    SilentSpectator FULL MEMBER

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    ^^^What caliber bullets does it fire?
     
  5. Echo_419

    Echo_419 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Any news about the MICIWS project?
     
  6. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I think I touched on most of them in the following.
    http://indiandefence.com/threads/proxy-war-india-pakistan-tactics-and-equipment.56663/

    Below is the excerpt from the final para
    Solution Strategy:

    Indian army has been looking at different battle rifle systems to replace the the Insas System. but the need is to not just change one system in the mix but all three system on platoon level. As Indian army is challenged with the medium to long range system for Post exchange and short range performance for patrol ambushes, it needs a 6.8 SPC or a 6.5 Grendel, caliber weapon that can discharge both of the roles. This would remove the need for two dissimilar infantry battle rifles in the post.

    Precision system: Either of the 6.8 SPC or the 6.5 grendel with a precision barrel and variable scope system on a AR15 Platform can be used to replace the SVD Dragunov DMR rifle.

    For the machine gun solution, a system like the Kord 12.7×108mm would be a leap forward compared to the Bren and PKM systems used by the Indian Army, the ballistic trajectory and terminal ballistics are substantially superior to 7.6251 and 7.62x54R traditionally used by the Indian Army in past. With Kord as the main machine gun system for Indian posts, an auxiliary OFB Vidhwansak can be fielded in post as it shares the 12.7x108mm cartridge. Another option is the GAU-19/A chambered in .50 Bmg. Three Barrel Gatling gun at the Machine gun posts would be terrifying proposition for the both the opposing Pakistani posts as well as insurgents trying to break through.

    The gaps in the ballistic nature and logistical differences of dissimilar systems may not seem like an issue, but might became a life and death situation when the first shots are fired. The mishmash of system in the Indian posts can hinder it from seamlessly performing as one unit. Inducting calibers which can provide the best possible ballistic performance, and superior firepower can not only deter Level 1 engagements but also affect the morale of the opposition forcing them to change tactics. Given that ample opportunities to field-test such systems in real time, The Indian Army can start rapid experiments for observe the impact of these systems in the LOC to see it's effect on the ground situation. With a semi-active battlefield, it gives the Indian army tremendous opportunity to combat test the small arm systems to evaluate the efficacy of different systems that can fit in as the replacement for aging systems and get a substantial tactical advantage against the Pakistani forces.


    @Abingdonboy for MMG i back the Kord. It will out shoot a Mg3 everytime.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
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  7. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Also if it was me I would rather work with a small american armorer like LWRC, Anderson, or Spike tac to develop a high quality 16 " 6.5 gren Gas piston on Ar15 platform, and a 6.5 Heavy barrel free floated 20" Ar for Precision rifle.
     
  8. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    After reading your your post again, I realized that I did not touch on the Lee enfield question. Springfield I am not sure If I have ever seen one in the hands of Indian law enforcement.

    Most SMLE's in India today are not 303's but actually Ishapore 7.62 SMLE. And without doubt it's an excellent rifle in the hands of trained shooter, but the thing is I highly doubt the proficiency of Indian law enforcement. I have seen the constable shooting a smle tucked into his armpit while shooting it in the railway station in 26/11 fiasco.

    Lets face it, that we have out of shape and and very underweight candidates all around, that the hand we were dealt, so let me propose a cost effective, less taxing shooting solution as replacement for all SMLE's Sten carbines, and no it's not the AK Alfa.

    Rather a Glock or CZ 75 hand gun that can double up as a carbine.

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    And it is made by the same AK Alfa guys.
     
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  9. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    An excellent option...it's also very unlikely that Police will be needing anything more than a normal 9x19mm for their usual work. All Tier-2 and Tier-3 cities need to maintain local SWAT divisions with their own weapons & equipment (quite a few already do) while NSG should be ready round the clock to respond in any Tier-1 city, in addition to a local SWAT team for non-critical situations (from a national security perspective).

    Whoever succeeds in transforming the Indian Police forces for the better will truly deserve a special place in Heaven.

    Meanwhile, the Kalyani Group seems to have entered into some sort of JV with RONI to offer pistol carbine conversion kits...

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  10. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Still in user trails.
     
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  11. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I bet this imported rifle will be cleared in trials in less than half of the time
     
  12. Inactive

    Inactive Guest


    Nothing on this weapon. There is some rumour of final standardisation of weapons across Armed Forces and the CAPFs.

    The only weapon being looked at for immediate replacement is the INSAS 5.56. Rest is all speculative here.
     
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  13. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    Till now only more AKMs are being bought. Some Jharkhand Jaguar units here deployed on Anti Naxal Ops have replaced their SLR/INSAS with AKMs.

    I wish the home ministry and government of states dealing with Naxals and other insurgencies, if they want AK47/AKM should opt for our OFB developed / copied one. Would be better than importing from Bulgaria and other former soviet republics.
     
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  14. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    5,56x45 NATO.
     
  15. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The carbine conversion kits are an excellent idea to equip most armed Police in cities & towns. However, this would imply the issuing of easily concealable handguns to constable-ranked personnel. Should we think this is risky in any manner (loss, theft - intentional or otherwise, etc.) an alternative approach might be procuring the Berreta Mx4 Storm carbine, which is already used by the BSF -

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    Light weight, pistol caliber, & 12" barrel allowing for good accuracy & range. Plus, the option of full-auto fire when needed.

    @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA

    Also, we've recently been seeing images of new AKs in the hands of counter-insurgency forces like RR...these being what could be a modernized Romanian AK/Izhmash AKM/OFB Ghaatak fitted with a range of Israeli-origin parts from FAB Defense. The example seen was making use of a Holo-sight+Magnifier setup as well (thanks to use of the Picatinny Dust Cover).

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    With the emergence of this weapon in RR service...a shadow of doubt has been cast on any possible acquisition of the AK-Alfa. But frankly, with this much-customized Kalashnikov in service, I reckon we might not need the Alfa at all anymore.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
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