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INDIAN ARMY ISSUES RFI FOR 200000 CQB CARBINES

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Hellfire, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    I'm working on the snapshot>>upload process. If anyone else is doing it, stop now and save some effort for yourselves.
     
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  2. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    Here. All the important bits (left out some stuff irrelevant to forum discussion like addresses & forms for application etc.) -

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    Continued (20 images limit)...
     
  3. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    [​IMG]
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  4. Fox

    Fox Supreme Overlord FULL MEMBER

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    Not a bad rifle at all, but am I the only person who doesn't like the handguard?

    [​IMG]

    Maybe I'm just spoiled having lugged around one of these, but the handguard on the IWI Ace just doesn't do it for me.

    "Give me a full rail - top, bottom and sides - or give me a different rifle" - Abe Lincoln.

    [​IMG]

    I can't say I'm too hot on the sights either, especially the front sight. I much prefer a flip-up sight then the fixed front posts of the Ace.

    Nice rifle otherwise.

    :troll:

    So what's your preference then @Hellfire ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  5. surya kiran

    surya kiran 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Aapke muh mein ghee shakar if this is true. Dabake liya hai 20.5 pe. Mera is saal ka phoren trip assured....hopefully.
     
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  6. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    It seems it's only for 5.56 NATO...

    So OFB is pretty much out. If it had been just 5.56 , then there was a chance of a 5.56x30 Carbine.....

    @MilSpec
    How good is MINSAS against 9x19?
    And would you take up a carbine with MINSAS over a AKMS for Close Quarter Combat in anti insurgency operations ?
     
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  7. Luttapi

    Luttapi 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    The purchase plan is for 200,000 close quarter battle carbine to add power for fights in the 200 m range.
     
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  8. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I think OFB will not qualify for this.
    JVPC/MSMC 5.56X30 mm from OFB weighing 3.05 kgs.
    It is not Not 5.56x45 (demanded). The loaded weight is slightly more than 3kg and effective range is less than 200m. So it clearly disqualifies for this.
    Other OFB products are also hv more than 3kgs.
     
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  9. Luttapi

    Luttapi 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    JVPC fits the picture. 300px-MSMC_-_Modern_Sub_Machine_Carbine.jpg
     
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  10. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    It is absolutely ridiculous.

    OFB manufactured standard 5.56 x 45 is already underpowered, when you take 5.56 x 45 (energy 1125 ft/lb )and cut it down to 30mm case length, your energy drops to something around 750 ft/lb. 5.56 nato's main advantage has been it's high velocity which compensates for it's small diameter, but when you cut down the case length, you end up with crappy terminal ballistics and crappy velocity. A 9mm round still will travel at a lower velocity than the 5.56 x 30 but will have a projectile almost twice the diameter, the bullet weight at 9.54 grains for ofb 9mm fmj is twice of the 5.56, hence it will be much more effective at close range.

    Minsas, MSMC's 5.56x30 round takes the best features of 5.56 Nato, i.e flat shooting high velocity, and trims it down, while retaining it's bad feature, i.e it's projectile diameter. It's like taking Amitabh Bachhan and cutting him down to Amir Khans size.

    For a pistol/carbine caliber for close combat, you take big round and lower down the speed, if you do it the other way around it just plain stupid. For counter insurgency ops there is no beating the 7.62x39 round, If I was king for a day I would take the CZ bren 807 or the Galil Ace chambered in 7.62x39mm. Both are amazing Platforms.

    Sorry for the long rant, I won't be a taker for the Minsas or the MSMC. OFB is barking up the wrong tree, rather than focusing on the Insas, develop the Trichy rile and the Metric Pattern FAL, they have far better potential than the Insas platform.
     
  11. Luttapi

    Luttapi 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    The Modern Sub Machine Carbine (MSMC) is an Indian submachine gun designed by theArmament Research and Development Establishment and manufactured byOrdnance Factory Tiruchirappalli of theOrdnance Factories Board.[4][5] It is also known as Joint Venture Protective Carbine (JVPC) as of 2014.[6] It was developed for theIndian Army, based on previous experience from the INSAS family of firearms.[7] The gun is very lightweight and compact compared to other Indian-designed weapons. It is chambered for the 5.56×30mm MINSAScartridge.[8]Modern Sub Machine Carbine

    Modern Sub Machine Carbine
    [​IMG]
    A MSMC submachine gun on display. The weapon has a red dot sight on the upper receiver.
    Type Submachine gun
    Place of origin [​IMG] India
    Production history
    Designer
    Armament Research and Development Establishment
    Designed 2006
    Manufacturer OFT Trichy of OFB
    No. built Preproduction prototypes only
    Specifications
    Weight
    2.98 kg empty
    Length 500 mm closed stock / 700 mm open stock
    Barrel length 300 mm
    Cartridge 5.56×30mm MINSAS
    Caliber 5.56mm
    Action Gas operated
    Rate of fire 700–900 RPM[1]
    Effective firing range 200–300 m [2][3]
    Feed system 30-round grip-insertedbox magazine
    Sights Picatinny rail built into upper receiver to allow placing on various day/night sights. Iron sights built into receiver.
    The MSMC was designed after the Indian Army's disappointment with the progress of a carbine version of the INSAS rifle. A variant called Excalibur was developed, but did not meet the requirements. The MSMC was designed to rectify the shortcomings of the previous developments. Through various trials and improvements, the ARDE came out with a grip-feeding, Uzi-like design that shortened the length of the weapon, making it more suitable for CQC purposes. Later its ergonomics were improved, boosting its export potential. The weapon is said to be capable of penetrating bullet-proof jackets.[1]It was created as an offshoot of the INSASsmall arms program.[4][9]




    History

    Design detailsEdit

    Following design from machine pistols like the Uzi, the MSMC has a pistol grip which allows the user to fire it even with one hand. This allows the insertion of 30-round MSMC magazines on the pistol grip.[20] It has a retractable buttstock and ambidextrous cocking levers on both sides of the MSMC,[10]alongside the fire selectors to suit individuals who prefer to fire the weapon from either the left or right shoulder located above the trigger.[10]

    It has a picatinny railing on the receiver to allow the installations of weapon sights likereflex sights with iron sights built into the railing.[10] The weapon fires in a gas operated mode, utilizing rotary bolt locking and a gas piston.[10] The MSMC can also be suppressed with the installation of a silencer.[20]

    Like the Uzi, the MSMC is made up of stamped sheet metal while having polymer housing.[10][20] An unusual element in the design is the placement of the bayonet lug, located above the barrel just at the front of the receiver.[10] A three-point sling is used to help carry the MSMC via shoulders.[20]

    The first prototypes have a large trigger guard, but later versions had this removed and instead, had traditional trigger guards instead when they showcased in exhibitions in 2013.[citation needed] In 2014, the MSMC's buttstock length changed from 558mm to 500mm.[citation needed]


    See also

    References

    External links



    Last edited 3 months ago by an anonymous user
    INSAS rifle
    assault rifle

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    Content is available under CC BY-SA 3.0 unless otherwise noted.
     
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  12. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Not possible.
    It's 5.6X30 where as RFI for 5.6X45
    Also it has more than 3kgs loaded weight and shorter Range than required.
     
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  13. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    If me was king for a day, All of em would be the FN2000's. One of the most under-rated Bull Pups, and after very log consideration better than my all time favorite IWI/IMI Tavor
     
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  14. Luttapi

    Luttapi 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Tavor assault rifle weighs 3.27 kg when empty and does not fit to tender. I think the tender is specifically for Micro Assault Rifle of Galil family and it weighs only 2.95 when empty. This tender is also going to be single vendor in the end.
     
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  15. Blackjay

    Blackjay Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    I am almost certainly wrong,since every expert here disagrees (and I am no expert).So please don't mind correcting me.

    To me JVPC does fit the picture.It was very recently displayed with hints about soon to be inducted.
    The order size is very large for 2 lakh cqb carbine indigenous project makes more sense than Licence production.Specially since gov is harping about indigenisation every chance they get.

    RFI doesn't specify 5.56x45 NATO ,it only specify 5.56 calibre which JVPC is.I am taking about page 1,the first table.
    5.56 x45 NATO is mentioned later ,where they have asked whether your carbine works with 5.46 x45 NATO rounds or not?If not then specify which round they work.JVPC works with 5.56x30, not disqualifying.

    The range claimed by OFB is 200m,if they managed to achieve it,then range doesn't disqualify JVPC either.The RFI says min 200m and nothing else.

    The minimum weight is not mentioned in RFI either.All it states is that carbine should be as light as possible preferably less than 3kg.JVPC weigh 2.98/3.05 kg(found 2 different sources:() so again not disqualified.
     
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