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Indian army soldiers-The Expendables

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Levina, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. VCheng

    VCheng RIDER GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    Is that what you wish India to become?
     
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  2. VCheng

    VCheng RIDER GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    Yet with all those things being done for so long, what exactly has India been able to achieve that would actually resolve the basic issues?
     
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  3. Dagger

    Dagger 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    To make it short.
    Jihad. Can't be with a kaffir cent govt.

    A bit longer.
    They accuse the army posted over there of human rights violations and ill treatment. A few bad eggs are unavoidable. But lots more propaganda is mixed in, Fake accusations about the kaffir army by a muslim. And they simply chose to believe their brethren. Point of note. 3 terrorist die = 3 kashmiri youth minding their own business killed. The pics of black flags and guns with them are just false flags. Insane conspiracy theories fed daily. And any person who tries to actually stand by the truth is labelled pro India and attacked.

    Well, am not cheering for your suffering, but "coming soon to france" from what I have been reading. Just 10 mins back a video got posted by BMD abt france. Check it out
     
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  4. Dagger

    Dagger 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Are you saying, we gift the peaceloving kashmiris to the warlords. You are a man familiar with the way the world works.
    Tell me . Do you see any good ending for the civilians, from a movement which starts with Naara-e-Takbeer?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
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  5. Dagger

    Dagger 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    isn't the present situation itself an achievement?
    Kids go to school. Read recently that some girl kids do skiing lessons over there.
    No terrorist attacks on the civilians by ISIS affiliated TTP.

    10% money pumped in for 1% population. plus The civilians have the benefit of buying anything without sales tax unlike rest of India plus all the maintenance of the army deployed over there.

    Its a swell place by pakistan standards.
     
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  6. venureddy

    venureddy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    we need to get to the people behind those stone pelters and people those stone pelters are protecting. we should not go after these distractions and let the real criminals escape.
     
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  7. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    I wish to pose a simple alternative..

    Why not have a special police force.. trained for riot control and crowd control measure.. protected by a strong law.. and one who acts as a perfect cover for army..

    Why I said this is bcz, if you folks recall Mumbai Police did an exceptional job of cleaning out all thugs and rascals from Mumbai Street and in fact helped to control the age of Mafia.. they went after systematically and cut the supply chain supporting them..

    Can't we do something like that again?

    Is not law and order a state subject?

    Do we require to really consider army just bcz J&K has special status?

    My heart says let army do their job and let a special J&K police force do the specific state job..

    Moreover, we also need to cut the financial support chain to all these people..That's where I believe the police force can do wonders to poach out the bad eggs and bring normalcy back ..
     
  8. Rain Man

    Rain Man 2nd Lieutant POLITICAL ANALYST

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    We don't need to control the entire population with 'fear', the problem is with a small percentage of the population, maybe 5%, and that too only in 5-6 districts, only this portion of the population need to be controlled. In any place only 5%-10% people of this problematic group would be really motivated ones with leadership qualities, rest are followers, this leadership materials need to be targeted, rest will fall in line.

    Rest of the ordinary population don't fear their armed forces, they are actually victim of the actions of this small group, they fear the chaos caused by these separatists and terrorists.
     
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  9. Rain Man

    Rain Man 2nd Lieutant POLITICAL ANALYST

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    Not India, just a very small portion of it. It's better to be brutal than broken.
     
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  10. thesolar65

    thesolar65 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Ethnic cleansing is the right word here. To hell with the rest of the world.
     
  11. Rain Man

    Rain Man 2nd Lieutant POLITICAL ANALYST

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    Oh yes, this "Dialogue with peaceful Hurriyet" did much more harm than any good, because this 'peaceful Hurriyet' instigate others to go violent. In any case what to discuss with the separatists when separation is not an option on the table? I am all for neutralizing the separatist leadership including their ideological leaders who motivate people for separatism. You don't need to thrash the entire snake to neutralize the threat, crushing the head is just enough.
     
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  12. Didact

    Didact IDF NewBie

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    There are two issues in your post, and both deserve a seperate explanation:
    1. The use of Riot-police as cover elements to army: This is a non starter for operational issues. It is not very often that the precise location, i.e. the exact house where the terrorists are located is known beforehand. This makes it very difficult to establish a screening force, that too unarmed one. It wouldn't take the terrorists too long to figure out that there lies a perfect amassed soft target everytime there is a cordon set up. The army would end up having to escort and cover the screening force behind their supposed backs.

    2. Police led COIN: I keep repeating ad nauseum that the only way the narrative of Kashmir insurgency as weaved by the separatists can be broken is if the state police become the lead agency for COIN operations. It shatters the us-vs-outsiders binary equation, and presents the image of a local driven and led operation to the masses, i.e. an us-vs-us equation. IT shields the central government, the "outsider" from the consequences of local level operational actions, and thus removing the spectre of "India" from everyday discussion in Kashmir. This space, i.e. gap is necessary for rewriting the narrative of COIN operations.

    These are not completely my words, I'm afraid. A part of them belong to one of the leading police officers who led and oversaw some of the biggest COIN operations in Assam and Assam-Nagaland, Assam-Bhutan borders. COIN is a psychological warfare as much as it is a physical one. Narratives matter, and victory on the ground is worthless without dominating the narrative.
     
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  13. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    The only solution to Kashmir problem is round up all the local Terrorist leaders like Yasin Malik, Geelani, Lone, Asiya Andrabi, etc. & Politicians, like Abdullahs, Rubaiya, etc. each and everyone involved in anti national activities should be arrested and kept under tight security and then eliminate all at once creating a void. Then start raiding local Masjids and other sensitive place, homes for arms and ammunition. Scrap article 370, scrap elections for 10 years and start settling people from other parts of India starting Kashmiri Pandits and retired security personnel. Anyone found pelting stones should be finished then and as soon as someone pelts stone open fire kill as many people as possible who are involved in stone pelting.

    Make a task force to eliminate targets across borders, Azhar Masood, Hafiz Sayeed, Dawood, etc. all of these people should be eliminated. Heat up borders right up to Rajasthan. No crossing of borders but give serious nightmare to Pak Army, Navy, Air force, and Citizens. No adhering to human rights organization, if confronted tell them human rights are for humans and not terrorists. Be absolutely brutal, message should be loud and clear either stop terrorism or get eliminated.
     
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  14. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    SOG of J&K police is there. And they are part of the problem too. They use too much "force” to handle these peoples which may be considered as brutal and inhuman even by army's standards.

    PS: I am not blaming SOG(JK) here. They are vastly I'll equipped and trained to tackle this large anarchy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
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  15. Inactive

    Inactive Guest

    I will try to simplify things for you a bit. Ignore the nationalistic and emotionally charged posts on the thread at times.

    It shall be a tedious process to explain the genesis of the whole of Kashmir problem. But to sum it up in a nutshell:

    a. The Indian claims over Kashmir are valid and upheld under the original Indian Independence Act of 1947. The formation of India and Pakistan has been under this very clause. So to unwind one automatically leads to unwinding of the whole of partition. So, it is like digging up the past.

    b. The Pakistani state needs a justification for it's own existence. As long as a Muslim majority state remains away from them, ideologically they continue to be on an unstable platform. They are, after all, an ideological state.

    c. The problem of stone pelters is that of any place in the world where unemployment persists. Add to it the propensity to reproduce at the rate of cockroaches. It is a problem in Indian sub-continent as a whole. The pride that they got a kid every time they got horny! There has been a sudden boom in the population - there is a large population of school/college going age and youth - an unemployed mass.

    d. Wahabi money has found it's self into Kashmir, madrasas have propped up at every nook and corner. The progressive and open minded Kashmiri society is being hijacked by radical sunni clerics ably funded by our neighbours and the Bank of Jihad - Saudi Arabia.

    e. Then there is a clause of Article 370 under which no mainland Indian can buy a piece of land in Kashmir and any Kashmiri woman marrying outside the State looses her right to be considered a citizen of the State. This crops up two problems: an oppressive society where the women's role is increasingly being relegated to be 'jihad bride/comforter' and a situation where the Central Paramilitary Forces and Armed Forces are not local residents.

    f. The J&K Police is an excellent force. The advantages are that they hail from the same region. But the problem now crops up of Politics of the State. If the police functions as it should, it's names are inexplicably released in public or told to militant groups and retribution comes immediately.

    g. Politically speaking, the funding of Separatist leadership under Hurriyat (an umbrella organisation of separatist groups) is paid by ISI, Pakistan, Indians and Saudi Arabia ...every one! Their children either reside in Delhi or Mumbai or out of India in Pakistan or US/UK etc. Additionally, the Government of India provides them with security and healthcare etc.

    h. Also, all the contractors providing logistical support to Armed Forces in J&K are either directly or indirectly linked to the separatists and the politicians of the State. So if there is a draw down of the forces, it automatically means less business for them. Like you pointed out, it will also mean lesser Central Grants to pocket!

    i. So, in a nutshell, India has this stupid notion of some holier than thou attitude towards problems and is still stuck in 1947 and rest all are merely making money. The day a curfew is imposed in Kashmir, it means that the daily wage earner has no money to earn. Longer it goes, he is paid money to pelt stones. The rate is Rs 500 per day per person. I was offered the chance to finance a 12 year old kid throw stone on SA Gilani's car (the Hurriyat Separatist Leader)!

    j. Last but not least, the demography. The majority is Sunni ... in sub-continent they were the masses of poor who were converted post Muslim invasions. The elite, converted to Shia, and this lot is quite progressive. But uniquely in Kashmir, they have also started becoming equally stupid due to socio-economic factors like lack of employment and education opportunities and a dysfunctional industrial-agricultural base.

    h. The ultimate is the Indian intelligence agencies experimentation by allowing Wahabi money in Kashmir to pit the groups against one another......

    I can rant on ... just go through above points ... can explain in depth each as you want.
     

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